Thai law and legal fatherhood of children outside wedlock

[buksida]

Do you know whether this procrastination is a recent development? Only, I'm wondering whether it might, in some way, be tied in with the new regulations regarding getting annual extensions on the back of supporting a Thai child?

Possibly, that is what I was asking in the OP essentially as this "bai rup rong bot" document is a completely new one on me! I'm not in a rush for it as its for the Will so a month's wait is fine .... providing I stay alive!

[buksida]

Well almost 5 weeks later and I now have the magic document in hand, process took about an hour and we needed two witnesses and a bunch of ID papers, birth & marriage certs etc, nothing from the embassy.

Now my next step will be to ask immigration if this document fulfills the requirements for a visa extension on the basis of child support.

[advocate]

My understanding is that a child born out of wedlock is presumed to be in the custody of the mother only, and that the only way to gain custody for the father is too adopt the child as I did.

I hope you prove me wrong!

[buksida]

Apparently (according to the lawyers and the amphur office), this document grants custody and full legal rights to the father also without the need to adopt.

Immigration may not share that view though, they have a habit of adding additional hoops.

[advocate]

Apparently (according to the lawyers and the amphur office), this document grants custody and full legal rights to the father also without the need to adopt.

Immigration may not share that view though, they have a habit of adding additional hoops.

Sounds like this is a way to gain shared custody as opposed to sole custody obtained via adoption. I'm almost certain that sole custody can only be ordered by a judge, not by an administrator. Whether this document will satisfy immigration for supporting a child remains to be seen.

Seems odd my lawyer didn't mention this at all, unless of course he was just looking for more work.

Either way, there are a lot of people who would like to know.
Please keep us posted.

[STEVE G]

Sounds like this is a way to gain shared custody as opposed to sole custody obtained via adoption. I'm almost certain that sole custody can only be ordered by a judge,...

One thing has just occured to me; seeing as many people with Thai partners support children from their previous relationship, does this child have to be your own or can you get shared custody of your partners child this way?
I know that most people just support these children without any legal means but I suppose if they wanted to try to apply for a visa on the back of it, a legal process like this would be useful.

[advocate]

Quoted from Steve G: One thing has just occured to me; seeing as many people with Thai partners support children from their previous relationship, does this child have to be your own or can you get shared custody of your partners child this way?


I would expect that custody of any child would require the consent of the birth father, who is likely named on the birth certificate. Just finding him might be near impossible. Even if you did find him, if he has principles I doubt he would give up legal custody. Some might do it for cash.

[STEVE G]

I would expect that custody of any child would require the consent of the birth father, who is likely named on the birth certificate. Just finding him might be near impossible. Even if you did find him, if he has principles I doubt he would give up legal custody. Some might do it for cash.

Yes, I see your point, I know people who have been supporting their partners children for many years and obviously finding a father from that long ago is going to be impossible, as you say.

[JimmyGreaves]

I went to immigration a couple of days ago to get the Thai name of the document required to allow an extension of stay based on supporting your Thai born child: Point 6.3 underlined is the name of the document they want. They said that this was a law document and I would need to goto Prachuap courts to get this. This document is also required by the consulates to get the OA visa based on support/visitint etc.

Already been to 1 lawyer in Hua Hin who want 60,000 baht to do this. Typical!

Anyone know if we can goto the court directly ourselves and apply or a non-rip off lawyer maybe in Prachuap Kirikhan that we can contact?

Think this is the requirements document for the support extension of stay.

Anyone available for translation?

[advocate]

Jimmy Greaves.

Not sure exactly what you need as I don't speak/read Thai.
You will need a lawyer.
Mine cost 25,000 Bt for the full adoption process, which took 1 year.
Not sure if I can name the office on here though.

Time for a beer at my local. If you need the name just PM me and I will get back to you later. Or perhaps in the meantime the Mods may indicate if OK to post name for all to see.

[margaretcarnes]

Quoted from Steve G: One thing has just occured to me; seeing as many people with Thai partners support children from their previous relationship, does this child have to be your own or can you get shared custody of your partners child this way?


I would expect that custody of any child would require the consent of the birth father, who is likely named on the birth certificate. Just finding him might be near impossible. Even if you did find him, if he has principles I doubt he would give up legal custody. Some might do it for cash.

One of our founder forum members - Dawn - has experience of this situation in regard to her Thai stepson. After a lengthy battle she took the boy back to the UK a few years ago. Things can be done - and maybe if Dawn is still on here she might be ready to tell her story (as many of us on here were 100% behind her at the time.)
Another ex HH expat - John - fought long and hard to gain custody of his little boy, and succeeded.
There are so many different situations re children, parental rights, and custody etc that it would be good if farang who have been through these things could share their own experiences, for the benefit of others who are still going through it (and there are some) and also from the point of view of the children involved.

[Big Boy]

After a lengthy battle she took the boy back to the UK a few years ago. Things can be done - and maybe if Dawn is still on here she might be ready to tell her story (as many of us on here were 100% behind her at the time.)

Thanks for that bit of information Mags. I knew she was fighting the battle, but didn't know the final result.

[buksida]

I went to immigration a couple of days ago to get the Thai name of the document required to allow an extension of stay based on supporting your Thai born child: Point 6.3 underlined is the name of the document they want. They said that this was a law document and I would need to goto Prachuap courts to get this. This document is also required by the consulates to get the OA visa based on support/visitint etc.

Already been to 1 lawyer in Hua Hin who want 60,000 baht to do this. Typical!

Anyone know if we can goto the court directly ourselves and apply or a non-rip off lawyer maybe in Prachuap Kirikhan that we can contact?

Think this is the requirements document for the support extension of stay.

Anyone available for translation?

The first one in 6.3 says "sumnao tabian bai ruprong bot" (ใบรับรองบุตร) - which means "copy of registration of proof of parenthood" - which is the document I have just done at the amphur office. It costs nothing.

That seems to have answered my question on immigration requirements.

[johnnymac]

Quoted from Steve G: One thing has just occured to me; seeing as many people with Thai partners support children from their previous relationship, does this child have to be your own or can you get shared custody of your partners child this way?


I would expect that custody of any child would require the consent of the birth father, who is likely named on the birth certificate. Just finding him might be near impossible. Even if you did find him, if he has principles I doubt he would give up legal custody. Some might do it for cash.

When my wife was applying for her and my stepdaughter's visas to come and live in the UK, she was able to obtain a document from the Thai authorities stating that she was the sole parent (called bor gor hok) which was accepted by the embassy .

However, when I attempted to adopt my daughter in Scotland, a year and a half and around £1500 lighter in lawyer fees the sheriff turned down the application because consent from the father wasn't obtained - my wife had no desire to contact her ex-partner for understandable personal reasons so that was that. However, as my stepdaughter's visa sponsor, I was informed by the lawyer that I was responsible for her although not her legal guardian in the UK.

I'm going to attempt to adopt my stepdaughter here, a long and painful process I'm sure. I'm hoping that the bor gor hok will mean that we don't have to contact him.

If anyone's had experience of this? It'd be great to find out now rather than in a year's time!

[JimmyGreaves]

I went to immigration a couple of days ago to get the Thai name of the document required to allow an extension of stay based on supporting your Thai born child: Point 6.3 underlined is the name of the document they want. They said that this was a law document and I would need to goto Prachuap courts to get this. This document is also required by the consulates to get the OA visa based on support/visitint etc.

Already been to 1 lawyer in Hua Hin who want 60,000 baht to do this. Typical!

Anyone know if we can goto the court directly ourselves and apply or a non-rip off lawyer maybe in Prachuap Kirikhan that we can contact?

Think this is the requirements document for the support extension of stay.

Anyone available for translation?

The first one in 6.3 says "sumnao tabian bai ruprong bot" (ใบรับรองบุตร) - which means "copy of registration of proof of parenthood" - which is the document I have just done at the amphur office. It costs nothing.

That seems to have answered my question on immigration requirements.

Very odd that you say it's that document Buksi. I got that document at the Ampur hoping it was that. I had to have my passport verified at the British Embassy and also translated (Trip to Bangkok and then Ministry of Foreign affairs @ Laksi), At the Amphur as my daughter was under 7 the officer quized her who was I and who her mother was, all good. When I presented it to immigration they said it was not good enough and needed the law document underlined point 6.3!

The law office in HH also said the document 6.3 had to be applied for at the court in Prachuab.

Bloody driving me crazy arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh