Dying In Thailand

[Big Boy]

As some of you will remember, following Sargeant's passing last November, I have been part of a team of guys trying to help his widow sort his affairs.

We did consider a 'What to do in the event of death' guide on the forum that everybody could use. That was dismissed as a non-starter because there were too many variables.

Here we are over 7 months on, and we're still sorting things. As a retired civil servant, I was given the task of dealing with the various UK Government Agencies. To help UK expats understand the stupid bureaucracy I'm dealing with (because their relatives will have to deal with the same farce), I have decided to share the latest 2 problems:

1. Sarge's widow brought me an official letter stating that she was entitled to a bereavement allowance. All that she had to do was complete and return the 3 attached forms. No problem I thought, as a retired civil servant I would be able to handle the bureaucratic process. The first 9 pages of the first 24 page questionnaire was simple. Then it got down to the nitty gritty about Sarge's life e.g.:

- ex-wives - date and place of marriage, and original divorce certificates. He'd been married a couple of times - there was no trophy cabinet containing these things.

- dates and places of residence in the UK. We managed to find a few former addresses, but dates living there, no idea.

- places of work, including dates of employment, clock numbers, work addresses etc.. OK, we knew where he had worked, and approximate dates, but that's where it ended.

- military service, including date and place of enlistment, date and place of discharge, dates and places served etc.

- Thailand - date first moved here and date of last arrival here.

I could go on, but hopefully this gives you some idea of the type of information that you will need to leave behind when you pass.

2. As Sarge passed in November, and will have been paying UK taxes on his pension, there was no way that he would have reached the tax allowance threshold, so I wrote to the tax office claiming a refund.

What I didn't know was that he had underpaid in the previous tax year, and the underpayment was being taken every month by the tax office. When the calculation was done, he actually owed £21 - a bit of an own goal, but they would have asked for it back eventually.

- First problem was how his widow could pay a Sterling bill when she only had Thai Baht - she'd never get the exchange rate 100%. Fortunately, Sarge has a brother-in-law in the UK who offered to sort it. I scanned the paperwork (which has to be completed by the Tax Agency in the case of bereavement anyway), and e-mailed it to his brother-in-law.

- Second problem was after being passed from pillar to post via telephone, they would not let him pay the £21. They needed the original paperwork, and a letter of authority from Sarge's widow.

What a bunch of jobsworths, but a good indication of the problems whoever deals with your estate will encounter.

- Case 1 you're entitled, but we'll make it too hard to get your hands on our money.

- Case 2 you owe us money, but we'll make it too hard for you to pay us.

I think the moral of this story is prepare as much as you can for the day you pass. However, regardless of how much you've prepared, there will always be a requirement for more.

Sorting the affairs is going to be going on for several months yet. I hope when I pass, Mrs BB will get similar aid, because there's no way she would be able to handle it herself.

Please don't underestimate the task ahead for your loved ones.

[PeteC]

Some of those questions they ask it seems they don't know either, nor would they dig to find them themselves. That makes some answers given easy I would think. If all they're doing is putting up intentional roadblocks, go around them.

[bsdk1960]

^ wow thats crazy,I think I'll start colecting all I can when I go home in august and try figure out whats needed.

God job you guys do.

[garhook]

Maybe a good idea for individuals to get hold of the forms now, when they are still alive, and fill them out.
Keep them safe until the fateful date then your spouse's job will be made a lot easier
Planning ahead.................

[Big Boy]

Some of those questions they ask it seems they don't know either, nor would they dig to find them themselves. That makes some answers given easy I would think. If all they're doing is putting up intentional roadblocks, go around them.

Maybe with some of the questions, but they also required a lot of original paperwork such as divorce certificates, marriage certificates and birth certificates(for each (ex) wife. Some were from a different chapter in his life that he'd left 6,000 miles away - just not possible to provide these things.

I actually did what I could, and wrote a covering letter about the rest, and asking for suggestions where what they were asking for was essential.

The thing that really got me was that they got in touch, and informed his widow that they had up to £2,000 for her. Being an ex-civil servant, that money will only go back to the treasury if not claimed, so why make things so hard?

[kendo]

This is a good thread and of interest as you never know when your numbers up quite thought provoking really, i am in my forty's but i need to think of the implications of anything happening to me whilst in Thailand as my wife would need help and support especially with our young daughter to think about and sorting out my affairs.

I was present when Sarge's wife bought along that letter and it was really lovely and heart warming to see that the team of people around her helping in any way the could. Sarge's ex brother in law had traveled to Thailand to help sort things out after being very ill himself that's very commendable.

Kendo.

[Nereus]

........ military service, including date and place of enlistment, date and place of discharge, dates and places served etc.

Is there not an organisation in the UK that takes care of ex servicemen? I know that in Australia a call to the local branch of the RSL(returned servicemen's league) would soon have them pulling some of the bureaucrats into line.

I guess this is just another example of the demise of Overseas Embassies. At one time a visit there would have sorted it out. Disgusting, really.

[Big Boy]

Possibly, but we've also encountered the Data Protection Act in our quest for information.

[Spitfire]

I'm no expert but I'd certainly give the British Legion a shot, think they help out in things like this.

[musungu]

Does Sarge's wife get a widows pension after all this, if not why bother with the pensions people?

[Big Boy]

She gets Sarge's occupational pension.

The pensions people were obviously informed of the passing as pension payments had to be stopped. Even then there was an overpayment, which created problems repaying it. Outside of that, we contacted nobody because we didn't realise she was eligible for anything else.

The pensions people actually contacted Sarge's wife advising that she was entitled to a bereavement benefit of up to £2,000. If she had been a little older, I believe there would also have been a monthly bereavement benefit for a period (12 months I believe).

[migrant]

I've mentioned before that I have worked with many clients where one dies and the other has no clue what they have, or where it is.

Keep a list of insurance policies, numbers addresses, bank and investments, lawyers and accountants. If you wish to keep your spouse ignorant then leave it with your lawyer.

[dundrillin]

On a lighter note it was reported in the press last week that relatives are attempting to smuggle the bodies of loved ones on to a plane to avoid the high charges involved in transporting a deceased person back to the UK.
You can imagine the scene at check in---
" did you pack your case yourself sir? Er wait a minute he's dead! "

" No he isn't,he's just resting."

Shades of the Monty Python dead parrot sketch.

[Nereus]

She gets Sarge's occupational pension.
The pensions people were obviously informed of the passing as pension payments had to be stopped. Even then there was an overpayment, which created problems repaying it. Outside of that, we contacted nobody because we didn't realise she was eligible for anything else.
The pensions people actually contacted Sarge's wife advising that she was entitled to a bereavement benefit of up to £2,000. If she had been a little older, I believe there would also have been a monthly bereavement benefit for a period (12 months I believe).

Are you sure about the widows pension? I guess things change, but many years ago an English chap that I knew here in Bangkok found out he only had 6 months left because of cancer. He had a girl that was much younger than him and he asked about the widows pension at the British Embassy in Bangkok. He was informed that if she was legally married to him that she was entitled to the pension. I know that they did get married, and that my late wife helped her after he passed away to process some of the paper work. I can not recall what the outcome was exactly, but I am nearly sure that she did get the pension.

[margaretcarnes]

She gets Sarge's occupational pension.
The pensions people were obviously informed of the passing as pension payments had to be stopped. Even then there was an overpayment, which created problems repaying it. Outside of that, we contacted nobody because we didn't realise she was eligible for anything else.
The pensions people actually contacted Sarge's wife advising that she was entitled to a bereavement benefit of up to £2,000. If she had been a little older, I believe there would also have been a monthly bereavement benefit for a period (12 months I believe).

Are you sure about the widows pension? I guess things change, but many years ago an English chap that I knew here in Bangkok found out he only had 6 months left because of cancer. He had a girl that was much younger than him and he asked about the widows pension at the British Embassy in Bangkok. He was informed that if she was legally married to him that she was entitled to the pension. I know that they did get married, and that my late wife helped her after he passed away to process some of the paper work. I can not recall what the outcome was exactly, but I am nearly sure that she did get the pension.

'Fraid not Nereus. I checked on this for BB and under present rules Sarges widow doesn't receive an ongoing widows pension as she is under 45. As he says she could claim one for a max of 12 months, but the clock is ticking on that one and the info needed is daunting. The £2000 one off payment seems the only option.