Native English Teachers To Be Given Thai Fluency Tests

[Gérard]

Young children can learn about anything quickly without lengthy explanations, by assimilation, but when you grow older, you will need to know "why and how" and you will appreciate a teacher who can answer your questions in your own language, until you are able to ask them in the language you are learning.
Another point is that young children can speak fluently, but with a limited vocabulary, just what they need according to their age.
But adults will need more words and more ability to express their ideas in many fields.
And finally, is it possible to learn to speak correctly without knowing the basic rules of grammar ?
I would say, yes for a child, no for adults..., with the occasional exception.

[GLCQuantum]

We seem to have strayed a little here.

What's being proposed has nothing to do with using Thai in the classroom - that issue has many pros and cons about it that could fill a Stephen King novel (I've no better comparisons... his are the thickest books that I've read).

What they're getting at is... if you either can't be bothered or are incapable of learning a new language (the language of your hosts), are you in a good position to teach someone a language?

There's nothing worse than a teacher straight off the boat practicing their poor Thai with the students. Really gets to me that.

As Dtaai Maai has said, when it's in its, 'There's a lot of talk' phase, it rarely ever comes to fruition. Remember that ol' chestnut - "By the next year all English teachers must have a Bachelors of Education to get a teacher's license", some 8 years back?

"Yes, of course, Mr M.O.E. Because teachers with a B.Ed are going to come flocking to your fine country for the princely treasures you offer",...pffft.

I find that knowing a bit of the Thai language helps you understand why mistakes are made, be it grammatically or phonetically.

Grade 1 example: If a child tries to change, 'I saw a big dog', from Thai into English, it will become, 'I see dog body big'. Understanding the language can help you identify just why these mistakes are happening. I very rarely use Thai in the classroom (I've been an upper Primary teacher for the most part, so no need to use it - they already have the foundations of the language set in place) but do use it when it will save time; Stuff like tricky vocabulary... why waste 5 minutes explaining it when you can just give the Thai word and get straight into them using it in speech.

I think knowing the language of the children you teach helps massively... but that's me.

[dtaai-maai]

What they're getting at is... if you either can't be bothered or are incapable of learning a new language (the language of your hosts), are you in a good position to teach someone a language?

If it's as simple as that, then whoever 'they' are clearly knows nothing about teaching. And if you're referring to the Thai Ministry of Education you should know as well as anyone else how true that is.

What matters is quite simple:
1. You know enough about your own language to teach it.
2. You have the communication skills required to get your message across in an engaging manner.
3. Hell, if you have 1 & 2 you've pretty much cracked it. Anyone can get a TEFL certificate. A degree is clearly not necessary, unless you're hiding something from us. One's own ability or inclination to learn other languages is irrelevant.

Languages come naturally to the lucky few, others have to work hard at it, and many just can't do it at all. Its like any other talent: art, science, music, maths, sport, etc. - these are gifts that are distributed, often individually, to varying degrees.

You presumably learned Thai during your many (young) years in Thailand before you started teaching. How ( or more appropriately when) do you propose the average English teacher will learn the level of Thai you suggest while working full time? You have frequently made the point how little free time you have to do various things.

[GLCQuantum]

What they're getting at is... if you either can't be bothered or are incapable of learning a new language (the language of your hosts), are you in a good position to teach someone a language?

If it's as simple as that, then whoever 'they' are clearly knows nothing about teaching. And if you're referring to the Thai Ministry of Education you should know as well as anyone else how true that is.

What matters is quite simple:
1. You know enough about your own language to teach it.
2. You have the communication skills required to get your message across in an engaging manner.
3. Hell, if you have 1 & 2 you've pretty much cracked it. Anyone can get a TEFL certificate. A degree is clearly not necessary, unless you're hiding something from us. One's own ability or inclination to learn other languages is irrelevant.

Languages come naturally to the lucky few, others have to work hard at it, and many just can't do it at all. Its like any other talent: art, science, music, maths, sport, etc. - these are gifts that are distributed, often individually, to varying degrees.

You presumably learned Thai during your many (young) years in Thailand before you started teaching. How ( or more appropriately when) do you propose the average English teacher will learn the level of Thai you suggest while working full time? You have frequently made the point how little free time you have to do various things.

I can't disagree with anything you've said there Dtaii Maii. I have said, many times on this forum, how it was due to no skill of my own that I know the language (I was 11 years old when I was introduced to it) but I like to think that, if I came here with nothing (language wise) under my belt, I would make a decent attempt to learn it.

During my time here I've met all sorts...

... highly qualified, Thai language fluent, Dr's who simply can't engage their students as their disposition doesn't really cater for Thai parents or students and...

... ex-binmen who have the personality and passion to do well in teaching here. Both of your points are very important...

1. You know enough about your own language to teach it.
2. You have the communication skills required to get your message across in an engaging manner.

BUT... I think it's also beneficial to know how their language works. Not essential... but beneficial.

[dtaai-maai]

I like to think that, if I came here with nothing (language wise) under my belt, I would make a decent attempt to learn it.

You still haven't said when, if working full-time. Someone suggested you do an on-line degree. No time, apparently. You simply can't have it both ways.

[GLCQuantum]

I'm not sure if I got the gist of your post there Dtaai Maai. I've stated that I can't find the time to do a Masters on line. To learn Thai, you don't need lessons (I never had any), you just need to speak to the locals. Every time you go out is an opportunity to practice your Thai. Thai's pay a silly amount of money for those 'General Conversation' lessons... we need not do that. We can just practice with a shopkeeper, taxi driver or bar girl - same thing.

When I came to live here in 2004, I'd forgotten all of my Thai. Took me about 2 years to get it back.

Every time you leave the house there are opportunities to learn/practice conversational Thai for free. That's the beauty of living IN the country of which you are trying to learn their language.



Edit: Just to add. Whenever I venture into Bangkok, I generally speak to the taxi driver the whole way (with can of Chang in hand). On the odd occasion, you can sense that he's really not up for a chat, but on most occasions he's more than happy to chat to a Farang about the usual topics (football team, salary, Thai girlfriend, Politics) and the conversation fills the hour journey. Completely free for me. If Thai's want that same 'just chat and practice' scenario, they have to pay money to language schools. It's a no brainer to use the Thai people... one of the few times that we can use them.

[HHTel]

What he's trying to say is that he never had lessons per se but learned by living with the Thais. It backs up my post when I said that you don't need one language to teach another. I gave the example of my daughters both ways (Thai to English and English to Thai) with no use of A. N. Other language. Someone said that will only work with children. However, to contradict that, I know quite a few Thai wives living in the UK who can speak English to what, over here, would be classed as advanced. Did they use the Thai language to learn it...... of course not.

[GLCQuantum]

What he's trying to say is...

Way to put someone down there, HHTel! I don't believe I was trying to say anything... I was just saying it.

[HHTel]

[/quote]You still haven't said when, if working full-time.[/quote]

So why were you not being understood!!!!

[GLCQuantum]

HHTel said...

So why were you not being understood!!!!

I'll file that one under 'old age'.

[margaretcarnes]

I disagree about the comments about not speaking a word of Thai in an English lesson - when students are beginning to speak English and their vocabulary is virtually non-existent, the teacher will often need to explain certain meanings in Thai to be able to get the students to understand the meaning - they will never learn if all they can do is repeat like a parrot. Fair enough, as the learning increases, the need to revert to native language should reduce, but there may still be the occasional need to clarify understandings to ensure the subject matter is properly understood.

I'm with you Dannie Boy. When I learnt languages at school (OK a long time ago) the grammatical rules had to first be explained in English. But then any foreign language teaching in the UK was based on grammar first.
Perhaps more importantly the English name for an object had to be understood before it was translated into whatever language we were learning.
Although different methods of teaching were adopted later I still can't really understand how any language can be learned effecively unless it's basic grammar and principles are fully understood first - which surely has to involve explaining the basics in the student's native language. Surely that is the only way to establish whether the student has a command of their own language first?

[sand_dancer]

D-M said....

By the time we get these kids, when they have already completed primary and secondary education and are 18+, we spend most of our time trying to undo the ingrained errors of more than a decade of poor teaching. Those comparatively few students that have had a native English speaker in school (who is also a good teacher) stick out like a sore thumb, as do those very few that have lived abroad or come from Indian families. At this level, I'm inclined to agree that the lower quality (for want of a better word) students (the majority) get little or no benefit from a farang teacher - they don't understand and they don't give a toss.

I think this paragraph neatly sums up why...... For the 1st 3-5 years that Thai children are taught English...... The teacher should be fluent in both Thai and English.....

Which was than backed up with.....

2. You have the communication skills required to get your message across in an engaging manner.

If they cannot speak English..... How can you communicate and get your message across if the teacher cannot speak Thai......

Many moons ago...... When I was at school...... French was taught by English speaking teachers from France..... German taught by English speaking teachers from Germany....

[HHTel]

When I was taught French at grammar school, from the outset, not a word of English was allowed during class despite the teacher being able to speak English. And that was many moons ago.

How was your first language taught? Not by the use of another language for sure.

[sand_dancer]

When I was taught French at grammar school, from the outset, not a word of English was allowed during class despite the teacher being able to speak English. And that was many moons ago.

How was your first language taught? Not by the use of another language for sure.

HHTel.....

There are many different ways of instruction...... Just as there are different types of Instructional technique......

It would also be fair to say..... That one's Mother Tongue is not " taught " from the outset...... It is more nurtured and developed until a level is reached that allow's for more structured education.....

[Pleng]

How was your first language taught? Not by the use of another language for sure.

Regardless of whether classes should use L1 or not, the above is not really a valid argument.

You spend your entire early years learning to speak and understand your own language, from your first gargled words, through making simple demands, to finally being able to engage in a conversation takes years. How do you expect to fit all of that into a couple of hours a week? Not to mention that you're learning your first language out of necessity; not just because you want to be able to speak another language, or even worse because you have to attend classes that you don't particularly care about.