Busting the fat myth

[J.J.B.]

I will always struggle with my weight, which is not to say that I am fat but rather that I would prefer to be a little thinner. By contrast, Mrs JJB is built like a racing snake and could not put on weight if her life depended on it. Putting on weight is not something that happens overnight but over many years, caused by a poorly adjusted lifestyle that includes inadequate exercise, imbalanced diet and hormonal changes exacerbated by stress, depression and the ageing process; nobody is born fat.

My fighting weight is around 80kg and I'm generally oscillating between 82-85, only reaching 80 with extra effort and discipline but never stay there for long. The problem is that fat tastes great and it is also an essential part of the human diet so cutting it out altogether is not particularly sensible. Moderation is, as Sand Dancer says, a personal observation and for me it includes going against my up-bringing and not always finishing what's on my plate. I travel extensively for work and am often out dining so will skip courses and also skip meals if I know a big social dinner is anticipated the same day. I should exercise more but absolutely detest structured sessions like the gym so have recently bought a bike and now enjoy cycling and don't mind building-up quite a sweat by cycling hard.

Jasper Carrot once joked that people were fat because their mouths were bigger than their arseholes and whilst that conjures-up quite an amusing image of people becoming blocked-up over time, it's not entirely fair. Having a hormonal imbalance is also not an excuse for being fat as only a tiny proportion of the population will ever suffer from such conditions, it is generally a lack of personal discipline coupled with ignorance about nutrition and exercise.

As for there being a pill for every ill, I don't subscribe to that theory. Humans have done pretty well without medical intervention and just because your doctor wants to keep your biochemical levels within what he or she thinks is the norm does not mean it is the case for you. There is no such thing as the 'average' person. Unless you are clearly suffering from being overweight and have developed comorbidities like diabetes or hypercholesterolemia, you really should just eat less and less often and try to move about a bit more to get your metabolism going. Or you could just accept the fact that you are shortening your life and be happy to die sooner than you may have ideally liked.

[sargeant]

As for there being a pill for every ill, I don't subscribe to that theory.

There are plenty of people that are always thinking of the next magic pill which never arrives

Lets call it a magic bullet there is only one magic bullet that works the bullet you have to bite on and take the pain and discomfort until it does work

[MrPlum]

Mr P you're spot on about the fake sugars ie fructose (corn syrup).

Another culprit besides, aspartame is msg, a taste enhancer. It is hard to avoid it because the food industry, making billions from it, keep changing the name. Hydrolyzed vegetable protein, vegetable protein, textured protein, protein extract, whey protein extract, natural flavouring, spices... are just some of the names the industry use. Aspartame is added to many foods under a variety of names. That's why some knowledge of nutrition is useful.

...i suggest one doesn't listen to people who have not done it (and only know what they read on websites ) listen to the people that have succeeded.

You, right? Yet, it took how many decades before you awoke from your stupor? You were depressed, overweight, with a heart condition and still smoking before you finally decided to do something. Even then, you needed an 'awesome' Doctor to state what everyone, including yourself, already knows. So much for intelligence and logic.

You ARE a good example. Of people who are so lazy, depressed or stubborn, they wait until they are about to pop their clogs before they decide to do something about it. Half of heart attack victims never get the chance to lose weight. They are dead.

What you have done, at your age, is commendable. Shame it cost you so many years of good health and vitality.

[sargeant]

You, right? Yet, it took how many decades before you awoke from your stupor? You were depressed, overweight, with a heart condition and still smoking before you finally decided to do something. Even then, you needed an 'awesome' Doctor to state what everyone, including yourself, already knows. So much for intelligence and logic.

You ARE a good example. Of people who are so lazy, depressed or stubborn, they wait until they are about to pop their clogs before they decide to do something about it. Half of heart attack victims never get the chance to lose weight. They are dead.

What you have done, at your age, is commendable. Shame it cost you so many years of good health and vitality.

Of course mr P you will get away with being downright antagonistic no mod will say anything after all i am only Sarge and he is fair game now isnt he

However what you know about being fat is laughable you are a person who has never been fat to use a phrase i have seen more fat on a greasy chip, anorexic seems a good description.
So NO we fatties do not need a skinny git like you with as per normal (for you) NONE NIL NANA EXPERIENCE or QUALIFICATIONS telling us what to do, we can read it on the web just the same.

The one thing you with all your BS does not say is how much fluid retention plays such a huge role in being overweight which shows how little you actually know so do us fatties a favour bugger off

[Lev]

Consider this a final warning to you BOTH.

Disruption of threads by following each other across the forum and attacking one another will no longer be tolerated. I think I speak for many of our members when I say we're sick and tired of it.

[sargeant]

As I have mentioned in my last post fluid retention is a large part of being overweight.
I have also posted that there is only one magic bullet and it is the bullet you have to bite on until it works. It takes time and energy and it is not a quick fix.
One member of this forum I have in conversation described as the only person I have met where you can almost hear him sweat. He has my utmost sympathy however I also think some of it is also his own doing.
I think most people know that sitting in air conditioning means you don’t sweat as much but as soon as you get out we sweat buckets.
If one is drinking copious amounts of beer wine tea coffee or water another words fluids some of it is got rid off by sweating or urination but some is retained in the body. This is exacerbated by sitting in air conditioning.
Before one can start on the fat reduction one has to get rid of the excess fluid. Stopping drinking beer had a very large part to play in my weight reduction.
But mostly it was getting my lazy butt out on my bike and riding the sweat off and subsequently getting rid of my excess fluids first and then the fat.
What you cannot do is exercise in air conditioning and expect even vaguely the same results use the climate to your advantage.
NO it is not easy its painful to start but it gets better, but one has to endure if a week is not enough make it a month if it takes 3 months so be it but I will guarantee it will get better and easier and you will feel the benefit.
One thing I found was I sweated less and less over the time and as the fluid retention leveled off my weight loss showed more in my body mass and less so on the scales but I persevered.
Having put on only a paltry 1.5 Kilos my first ride with Jingjoe I sweated buckets but yesterdays short run with my missus hardy any and I am now at my target weight of 84 Kilos

My advice bite the bullet and give it a good go and persevere

[MrPlum]

Putting on weight is not something that happens overnight but over many years, caused by a poorly adjusted lifestyle that includes inadequate exercise, imbalanced diet and hormonal changes exacerbated by stress, depression and the ageing process; nobody is born fat.

I agree and would add that changes can be more rapid depending on what you are eating and your constitutional type. In the Thai Traditional system, they use the 4 elements.. 'Earth', 'Air', 'Fire' and 'Water'. Everything in nature is made up of these four elements, including us. You can look it up if you want to know more.

Two people eating the same meal can have totally different reactions. One can lose weight, while the other will gain. Why? 'Air' types like your wife and I, do not typically gain weight. 'Earth' types, which I suspect you are, will gain easily. 'Water' types, to answer sarge's point, will retain fluid. I've posted about this in the past.

Your constitutional type determines the extent of any weight gain and the rapidity of any loss.

A good example of the perils of junk food is the film 'Supersize Me'. In it, a young fit man eats only McDonalds for one month. He gained weight quickly and became quite sick.

You can believe you are dieting, by drinking Coke Zero and other misleadingly labelled drinks but you will not lose weight. Looking at the people drinking it, you are likely to gain more. Aspartame... and you can add msg... are addictive (food giants know how to get you to eat more) 'excito-toxins', both of which need to be removed from the diet to give yourself a fighting chance. McDonalds foods are saturated with 'trans-fats'. So, yes, fat does cause weight gain but I'd say it is the wrong type of fats.

Eating too much; eating after 6 pm; not drinking sufficient fluids; cold or ice drinks; not eating 'bitter' leafy greens; poor food combinations and having a low digestive 'fire' will all exacerbate the problem.

[cozza]

Eating too much; eating after 6 pm; not drinking sufficient fluids; cold or ice drinks; not eating 'bitter' leafy greens; poor food combinations and having a low digestive 'fire' will all exacerbate the problem.

I get the idea of not eating after 6pm, but IMO not the be all end all. Again, it depends on how much exercise you do and WHEN you do it, your body doesnt know what time it is, it just knows that when you put it under more 'stress' than usual it changes it metabolic rate and hormone levels change. If you go and do a heavy weights session at 7pm and get back home at 8.30 and your intention is to gain 'lean muscle' you NEED to eat something and I would recommend glucose immediately to restore glycogen and protein within 30-45 mins for recovery and muscle growth, the glucose is so the body doesnt use the protein for glycogen (energy).

Professional bodybuilders have some of the lowest body fat %'s to muscle in the world, they are leading the field in "self experimenting" forms of nutrition and exercise. Yes, they use steroids and all kinds of stuff to get them there, but 99.99% of humans on this planet could not achieve what the top guys do even with the same 'shopping list'. These guys wake up in the middle of the night TWICE to have a Huge meal and continue to eat like crazy all day everyday and may have 4000-8000 per day calorie intakes which gives them the muscle mass. So my point is that the RIGHT food also produces muscle and energy and if you are training a lot then you need more food, I personally try to have 6 meals a day and snack too...lots of protein, fats, carbs, fruit & vegetables and exercise.

As Sarg pointed out,fluid retention IS a major factor but can and should be easily avoided with an active lifestyle and healthy diet without too much salt or sodium. Also, beer is great for producing estrogen which leads to all kinds of weight and hormonal issues. Hormone issues are a lesser talked about instigator in weight gain, not often talked about but hugely important in controlling the way the body runs off the energy its taking. I find coming here to the heat of Thailand from sitting in air con office back home in Aus is great and helps keep the retention away although I do hold water really easily too. Some of the harsher anabolic steroids actually increase fluid retention giving some bodybuilders the puffy face look and those that know what they are doing use other drugs to counter balance that including estrogen blockers or SERMS.

[sargeant]

As Sarg pointed out,fluid retention IS a major factor but can and should be easily avoided with an active lifestyle and healthy diet

To me its an active lifestyle which had most effect
My food has almost always since i came to Thailand been fresh meat fish poultry and vegetables purchased from the side markets.
I do have cheese, ham, bacon yogurt and milk from tescos but that is about it
i eat pizzas steak and kidney pies hamburgers lemon meringue pie apple tart and sponge cakes but always made from fresh produce and COOKED by MYSELF.
One quirk i only eat duck eggs as we get them fresh from a neighbor and they are 2 Bt an egg.

I think if you have a problem with your weight

1. Cut your fluid intake
2. Exercise more
3. Only eat what you need to and cut out snacks
4. Get a good set of scales and let your weight loss give you the impetus to keep going

I am also talking to our retirement visa holders in particular

[ahandpatsy]

Sarge

Whilst generally agreeing with what you are saying I think you need to be careful about cutting the fluid intake, especially in a hot country like thailand.

Yes cut the fluid intake of the bad stuff, coke, alcohol. But do not stop drinking water. If your body has too much water you will pee more. Simple as.

The things that makes us really weigh too much is either excess fat or muscle.

There is a saying "get fit in the gym, get fat in the kitchen" I run a lot and I am a 13st man (and yes I can do with losing weight). I ran a half marathon recently and used up 1800 calories. This is equivalent to 10 bags of crisps or two and a half bottles of wine !!!!

So if you want to lose weight stop putting stuff in your mouth that you don't need.

I just read a book by a guy that was a fatty and then managed to do an iron man triathlon within 4 years. He said his real turning point was when he decided to stop lying to himself and making excuses about his food and drinking. This is I suspect is the real truth for most of us.

Take care

AH

[sargeant]

Ahandpatsy
as i said

Before one can start on the fat reduction one has to get rid of the excess fluid. Stopping drinking beer had a very large part to play in my weight reduction.

The main point i am making is if you are overweight there is only one real way to get it off dieting alone may have some effect but exercise is crucial.

Whilst i bridle at the way Mr P put it he is correct do not leave it until you are nearly dead like i did
do not make all the excuses like i did
Bite the bullet that will give you better health AND EXERCISE

[ahandpatsy]

i appreciate that Sarge. But stopping drinking beer has more to do with getting rid of excess calories via the carbs in the beer which has a massive effect on weight loss. People need to keep drinking fluids.

The exercise you did obviously helped and I congratulate you on starting and maintaining your cycling as it will make you fitter and helps keep you trim. Cycling is bloody hard work especially in 30 deg oven. A 3 hour bike ride for me is worth about 2 bottles of wine or fish chips and mushy peas by the way !!!!

My point is that nutrition (ie not stuffing your face with pizza and beer) is far more important in a weight loss regime than exercise.

Bye the way the kids in the UK are getting so so fat now its very depressing. Its not the xbox thing its what they eat and drink. Sugar sugar and more sugar and the portions are ridiculous.

[sargeant]

I am not advocating stopping fluids altogether only the unnecessary fluids ie beer in large quantity's
as i said after a good bike ride i expect to gain approx half of the weight i have lost by re hydrating.
As for food intake its mainly the snacks Crisps snickers bars do nuts etc that one should cut out and also cut portion size
But and it is a big but without the exercise it is almost impossible to shed the fat. and i fundamentally disagree that diet is more important than exercise.
Without exercise you cannot burn off those calories

[MrPlum]

Professional bodybuilders have some of the lowest body fat %'s to muscle in the world, they are leading the field in "self experimenting" forms of nutrition and exercise.

Thanks for the interesting post. Body-builders are a different breed to normal folk. Most of the people I have worked with over the years have been over 50 and none have had any inclination to build their bodies, only get them in trim. They usually have aching joints or some condition which limits their options, including already being too obese. But I do acknowledge body builders are highly motivated and have body-sculpting down to an art.

Mere mortals tend to be confused by the hundreds of different diets and contradictory advice being presented to them. This is why I tend to fall back on the wisdom of the ancients. They didn't have to deal with some of these Franken-Foods, nor corporate-provided nutritional advice and dodgy food pyramids. Yes, you can just reduce your calorie-intake and exercise more but you can also refine the process.

I mentioned the system of 'Elements' which is still in use in India, China and Thailand and believe, through years of observation and trial and error, that it fits today's overweight folk very well. Just to re-iterate, fluid retention ('water' types) problem is congestion. They need to eliminate mucus-forming foods and incorporate more drying foods. Most people already do not take in sufficient water.

While I have been involved in detoxing for many years and helped hundreds of people, (Note to the misinformed: No longer) it is a broad label, not limited to 'starving' people. Juices, shakes and soups can be designed to include more or less calories or for particular conditions. The support and motivation you receive is necessary for those types that need a kick in the rear. There can also be emotional reasons why people 'comfort eat' that may need addressing.

There are rapid ways to lose weight (fasting), slow ways (vegetarian diet) and variants of in-between (vegan, raw food, low carbs and so on), all with elimination strategies.. you must ensure your major organs are working efficiently. Exercise, alongside, will achieve weight loss. 'If you rest, you rust!' Which strategy you adopt determines the pace at which you lose. When fasting, you lose around half a kilo per day. Raw food diets are similar.

I never recommend looking at the scales. Getting healthy is a better goal than weight loss, which is the 'side effect'. Weight can fluctuate with each individual. Loss isn't always uniform. Getting hung up on the scales isn't necessary.

No one suggests you should stay on these programs forever. They are short term fixes designed to transition you into a healthier lifestyle. The good thing about them is the education and motivation you receive. You realize you are not powerless against your food cravings.

Drinking salt water isn't pleasant, especially the first time but colon cleansing is IMO necessary to remove circulating 'toxins'. High enemas and/or a healthy cleansing diet will do the same job. Salt is used by hospitals prior to colonoscopies, to flush the colon. And by advanced yoga practitioners during their 6-monthly cleansing routines. Constipation is a leading cause of toxic build up in the body. Proper elimination should be addressed.

I would agree that diet is more important than exercise. You obviously get fat through what you are putting in your mouth. However, as sarge has shown you can achieve good results primarily with exercise.

We aren't all the same and you must listen to your own body. Skinny 'Air' types can lose weight just by watching TV!

[sargeant]

In my case the proof of the pudding (pun intended) is in the eating.

As stated it took 2 months of sloth to put on 1.5 kilos

without changing my diet one single iota and just with exercise it took 9 days to loose it

However i do agree cutting down the booze and the snacks is a must to getting the max from it
(needless to say but i do not snack eat at all anymore so that was not a problem)

as for constipation i chew raw old coconut and that keeps me regular i do not need enemas its a natural laxative