On another thread I pointed at the pressure from other Thais that partners experience every now and then. The farang speaks Thai pretty well and his partner is "blamed" for that by other Thais. It is all her fault to begin with!
And I think that also the "nationalism" aspect mentioned here plays a role.
For most Thais the world can simply be devided into Thai versus non-Thai.
A non-Thai mastering the language and thus "becoming a little bit more Thai" in the process is confusing, inconvenient and maybe even threatening. Not only at the gossiping and price negotiation level but the whole concept of a through the ages clearly defined Thai society is thrown upside down. No longer they deal with tourists who come and -more importantly- go. Farangs who settle down here. Farangs who speak Thai. Strange world!
For those who speak reasonably Thai there is a simple test. I did it a few times and my expectations were confirmed every time. But maybe we get some different outcomes from others.
Next time a Thai compliments you on your Thai and ask you were did you learn that. Tell him or her you mastered it all by yourself through books and self study and then add: "she does not like to help me" or even "she does not like me to speak Thai". Even if this is not true like in my case. Look at the reaction. Never had: "Why not" or "but she should", only smiles and nodded confirmation. Good girl.
Farang know too much
Wow, it;s amazing that this has stirred up so much interest isn't it? So what I've learned so far:
1) Your significant other may prefer you not to be "too" Thai literate so they can express themselves more freely with their family and friends, because, no matter how well you incorporate yourself into the Thai culture you will never, ever be Thai or think like a Thai as much as they and their family might value you. (take for example their exchange of information about a local ghost.....would we understand or just tease them about it?)
2) D-M's experience of the Thai becoming tone deaf when your partner is around who is a native Thai speaker seems to be a shared experience.
Perhaps the reality is the exchange of information between two native Thai is ten-fold from what we as farangs might get. My wife can learn more about current events etc. in a simple business transaction than I could have imagined possible. Walking from our front door to the car can result in three or four conversations taking place in the matter of thirty seconds. The most I can manage is a wa dee kup!
3) Realistically it's probably a huge pain in the butt to constantly be teaching someone Thai in the course of normal conversation, which is pretty much how most of us pick it up.
4) It might seem offensive to some of us, but Thais are Nationalistic in the extreme, and protecting their language may simply be a reaction to what they feel is the watering down of their culture. I can't tell you how much my wife hates "The King and I" movie......a huge insult to Thais that irks her to this day.
5) With the struggle to learn English as a guide, maybe my spouse thinks I will never be conversant enough in Thai to be able to carry on a decent conversation......and simply doesn't want to waste the effort trying to teach me when I put in so little effort to learn on my own. I chalk it up to being old.....but honestly I'm just lazy, using age as an excuse.
1) Your significant other may prefer you not to be "too" Thai literate so they can express themselves more freely with their family and friends, because, no matter how well you incorporate yourself into the Thai culture you will never, ever be Thai or think like a Thai as much as they and their family might value you. (take for example their exchange of information about a local ghost.....would we understand or just tease them about it?)
2) D-M's experience of the Thai becoming tone deaf when your partner is around who is a native Thai speaker seems to be a shared experience.
Perhaps the reality is the exchange of information between two native Thai is ten-fold from what we as farangs might get. My wife can learn more about current events etc. in a simple business transaction than I could have imagined possible. Walking from our front door to the car can result in three or four conversations taking place in the matter of thirty seconds. The most I can manage is a wa dee kup!
3) Realistically it's probably a huge pain in the butt to constantly be teaching someone Thai in the course of normal conversation, which is pretty much how most of us pick it up.
4) It might seem offensive to some of us, but Thais are Nationalistic in the extreme, and protecting their language may simply be a reaction to what they feel is the watering down of their culture. I can't tell you how much my wife hates "The King and I" movie......a huge insult to Thais that irks her to this day.
5) With the struggle to learn English as a guide, maybe my spouse thinks I will never be conversant enough in Thai to be able to carry on a decent conversation......and simply doesn't want to waste the effort trying to teach me when I put in so little effort to learn on my own. I chalk it up to being old.....but honestly I'm just lazy, using age as an excuse.
Excellent analysis T.I.G.R.
And regardless of all personal motives and interests of individuals you hit the nail on the head here:
I once read a nice comparison: Thais are squirrels and farangs are rabbits. The rabbit wants to learn to climb. He will master a little bit but he will never be able to climb like a squirrel no matter the efforts. And from high up the squirrels look down at the rabbit struggling and ask themselves why on Earth does this rabbit want to climb with us in the first place?
And regardless of all personal motives and interests of individuals you hit the nail on the head here:
For us learning Thai is an attempt to improve communication and an instrument helping us to integrate in Thai society. Unfortunately most Thais regard it as an -for them undesirable- attempt to become Thai which as a rule is not tolerated.no matter how well you incorporate yourself into the Thai culture you will never, ever be Thai or think like a Thai
I once read a nice comparison: Thais are squirrels and farangs are rabbits. The rabbit wants to learn to climb. He will master a little bit but he will never be able to climb like a squirrel no matter the efforts. And from high up the squirrels look down at the rabbit struggling and ask themselves why on Earth does this rabbit want to climb with us in the first place?
We are all living in 'the good old days' of the future.
Interesting thoughts and it leads onto another question regarding partners, do they value their nation above their spouse or siblings?
Years of solid brainwashing is hard to erase but that's food for another thread!
Years of solid brainwashing is hard to erase but that's food for another thread!
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Roel wrote:
But from my personal perspective, married to a Thai from your normal poor, rice-farming family she does not encourage me to speak Thai due to both of the following:
a) Understanding what she is talking to friendsand family about.
b) She hates it when I speak my tiny bit of Thai to females, who then smile and compliment you etc etc. I've noticed many wives feels it will lead to more flirting with the opposite sex.
SJ
Interesting, I've never considered it from that aspect. Maybe that is more applicable to Thai's higher up the social and economic scale as farangs may be seen as a threat to them. And I think we Brits and Americans do appear to try to take over and impose our will everywhere we go.And I think that also the "nationalism" aspect mentioned here plays a role.
But from my personal perspective, married to a Thai from your normal poor, rice-farming family she does not encourage me to speak Thai due to both of the following:
a) Understanding what she is talking to friendsand family about.
b) She hates it when I speak my tiny bit of Thai to females, who then smile and compliment you etc etc. I've noticed many wives feels it will lead to more flirting with the opposite sex.
SJ
I'll pretty much go with what's been said so far.
My Mrs is reluctant to teach me conversational Thai, I understand most of the words, and am able to get the gist of what they are talking about. I find it hard to join into conversations with them though, by the time I've processed what to say and put it into context, I find myself waiting for a pause in their conversation to say my piece, by then it's normally too late and they are talking about something else.
The only time I have real difficulty in understanding what they are talking about is when you get two, three or even four of them talking at the same time, which is often the case.
It doesn't matter how good, any Thai person says that my Thai language skills are, I always feel that I'm speaking baby language Thai, like a four year old.
I've learned over the years to keep my understanding of what they say to myself, you learn so much more. When I hear something of interest, or controversial, even if I understand what they are saying, I always ask what did they say.
My Mrs is reluctant to teach me conversational Thai, I understand most of the words, and am able to get the gist of what they are talking about. I find it hard to join into conversations with them though, by the time I've processed what to say and put it into context, I find myself waiting for a pause in their conversation to say my piece, by then it's normally too late and they are talking about something else.
The only time I have real difficulty in understanding what they are talking about is when you get two, three or even four of them talking at the same time, which is often the case.
It doesn't matter how good, any Thai person says that my Thai language skills are, I always feel that I'm speaking baby language Thai, like a four year old.
I've learned over the years to keep my understanding of what they say to myself, you learn so much more. When I hear something of interest, or controversial, even if I understand what they are saying, I always ask what did they say.
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Another point that has just occurred to me is that seeing as how when I’m away working, my partner spends all her time in an area where Thai is not the spoken language, perhaps she doesn’t actually feel that confident in her abilities to teach Thai.
I don’t know if this is the case, but I know I have the same problem when people ask me questions about the English language; I left school some years ago at the age of 16 and although I can tell someone how I would say something, I struggle to explain the technicalities of the language.
She often laughs whilst explaining how lackadaisical her schooling was, with teachers going missing for days at a time and telling her to go and learn about farming!
As for nationalism, I think in her case it’s more a question of being very close to the family and surrounding village than the country as a whole.
I don’t know if this is the case, but I know I have the same problem when people ask me questions about the English language; I left school some years ago at the age of 16 and although I can tell someone how I would say something, I struggle to explain the technicalities of the language.
She often laughs whilst explaining how lackadaisical her schooling was, with teachers going missing for days at a time and telling her to go and learn about farming!
As for nationalism, I think in her case it’s more a question of being very close to the family and surrounding village than the country as a whole.
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dtaai-maai
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It strikes me that asking your wife to teach you Thai would be a bit like offering to teach her to drive - a recipe for disaster! 
And as Steve said, being a native speaker doesn't automatically mean you can teach the language. I use my little font of wisdom as a walking dictionary quite frequently, but then my problem is that if it's a word that's not used very often, I've always forgotten it by the next time I need it...
And as Steve said, being a native speaker doesn't automatically mean you can teach the language. I use my little font of wisdom as a walking dictionary quite frequently, but then my problem is that if it's a word that's not used very often, I've always forgotten it by the next time I need it...
This is the way
Not sure its about asking her to teach you - the issue seems to be why she doesn't want you to learn. 
Of course everyone likes to gossip about the joys of a cross cultural relationship with like minded acquaintances but really is it cause enough not to want your partner to learn the language?
Surely nothing is secret when in matrimonial harmony? And if it is they can "nintah" behind your back. Then there is the trust aspect, she has to be secure enough that you're not going to chat up other girls with your new found knowledge.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I still would be wary of a woman that doesn't want me speaking Thai.
Of course everyone likes to gossip about the joys of a cross cultural relationship with like minded acquaintances but really is it cause enough not to want your partner to learn the language?
Surely nothing is secret when in matrimonial harmony? And if it is they can "nintah" behind your back. Then there is the trust aspect, she has to be secure enough that you're not going to chat up other girls with your new found knowledge.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I still would be wary of a woman that doesn't want me speaking Thai.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
It is a strange question, because she encourages me to speak the language in the village, but she seems not to like falangs who speak Thai.
Perhaps she is anti-Thai!
It’s hard to know what language to start with; I’m English with a Thai partner; an Indonesian daughter; working in Luxembourg with colleagues from Germany, France, Belgium, Italy and Ireland; customers from China, Taiwan, Iceland etc.; my best friends here are Swedish speaking Finns; my local pub is run by a Dane and staffed by Finns, Spaniards, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians and a Brazilian!
Perhaps I should stick to speaking English.
Perhaps she is anti-Thai!
It’s hard to know what language to start with; I’m English with a Thai partner; an Indonesian daughter; working in Luxembourg with colleagues from Germany, France, Belgium, Italy and Ireland; customers from China, Taiwan, Iceland etc.; my best friends here are Swedish speaking Finns; my local pub is run by a Dane and staffed by Finns, Spaniards, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians and a Brazilian!
Perhaps I should stick to speaking English.
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little imp
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Have you ever ask thai people why they don't want you speak thai.
My openion:
1. if you not speak right tone and the right word. It make you look stupid and funny
2. If you use speak thai language without a polite prefix or suffix word. It make you look agressive.
3. Most of thai people feel surprise and happy to tell and teach you to speak thai. In generally you look cute . (But not impressed your thai girlfriend because you look stupid)
If you don't want to look stupid. Learn to speak proper language.
My openion:
1. if you not speak right tone and the right word. It make you look stupid and funny
2. If you use speak thai language without a polite prefix or suffix word. It make you look agressive.
3. Most of thai people feel surprise and happy to tell and teach you to speak thai. In generally you look cute . (But not impressed your thai girlfriend because you look stupid)
If you don't want to look stupid. Learn to speak proper language.
Little imp may have hit upon one of the main reasons, never really considered that one before. I can imagine it is embarrassing for them when we speak Thai really badly, we all pee'd ourselves at Claudio Ranieri didn't we, he became a clown because of it, but it really an intelligent guy. Ossie Ardiles sounded like a freak too .... totting-ham.
When my wife first came to UK I was embarrased as hell sometimes as she sounded stoopid although she isn't, I ended up talking for her and finishing the sentence off.
Also I bet it's even more embarrassing when we sound aggressive or rude because we forget "krup/Ka" etc.
The obvious question then is why doesn't our Thai partner correct us and help us speak it better, but we all know the answer to that, it's 'easier' for them not too bother. That's their culture/attitude which we decided to join.
Anyway, this site will speak to you: http://www.thai-language.com/dict/
SJ
When my wife first came to UK I was embarrased as hell sometimes as she sounded stoopid although she isn't, I ended up talking for her and finishing the sentence off.
Also I bet it's even more embarrassing when we sound aggressive or rude because we forget "krup/Ka" etc.
The obvious question then is why doesn't our Thai partner correct us and help us speak it better, but we all know the answer to that, it's 'easier' for them not too bother. That's their culture/attitude which we decided to join.
Anyway, this site will speak to you: http://www.thai-language.com/dict/
SJ
Its a bit of a defeatist attitude though, how is anyone supposed to improve and "speak propa like wot we do" if they are never given the chance to learn?
Anyone learning a new language is going to make mistakes. I have heard some shocking Thai spoken by farangs that think they are half decent at it, and yes, I agree it sounds terrible - they should stick to French!
Anyone learning a new language is going to make mistakes. I have heard some shocking Thai spoken by farangs that think they are half decent at it, and yes, I agree it sounds terrible - they should stick to French!
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
That's a good point and perhaps I should reply in the TW of the D thread but I'll do it here anyway.JD wrote:.... I find it hard to join into conversations with them though, by the time I've processed what to say and put it into context....
I don't know the correct word...transiterate....perhaps? Meaning that you hear a foreign language, change it to English in your brain, think of the answer in English, translate it back to the foreign language in your brain, and then say it.
I've always heard this is the kiss of death in trying to learn any language. So, what goes into your brain in Thai, you need to think of the answer immediately in Thai. English has to stay completely out of the equation.
I don't know how to train my mind to do that. Perhaps it's only something you can master if you start as a young child. I don't know. Pete
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