How to pronounce Hua Hin

[Roel]

I think Saraburi is simply a hypercorrected (mis)spelling. I recall (from my favourite book) that as an exception between consonant clusters such as สร (sr) and ทร (tr) and others (I will look it up, do not have the book here with me) there is no inherent 'a' sound. Hence it should be spelled Sraburi. This explains the pronunciation Slaburi (Norseman, 2007).
The town Sri Racha is another example of สร (sr) clustering but here it is spelled correctly. In this case it is not pronounced Sli Ratcha however but the ร (r) is silent and Thai say Si Racha.
I'll be back, with my book!

[johnnyk]

WL is about right on the Hua Hin and Roel is on the mark with Pattaya IMO.

I'd agree on them.

As for Kap/Krap I'd agree spoken properly the r is clear (listen to the news or other Thai TV) but in reality most people drop it.

I hear the news readers say the 'r' in kap but, like the BBC, they speak a middle class, neutral version of the language and the street can be quite different... like Geordie

[Norseman]

Thank you Roel for the explanation.
Maybe Saraburi is a misspelling but I'd really like to know the rules here.
Especially for the "S-AR" pronunciation.
Saraburi is how the Thais pronounce the word when they talk slowly, but it's switched or changed to Slapburi when they talk fast.

[BaaBaa.]

WL is about right on the Hua Hin and Roel is on the mark with Pattaya IMO.

I'd agree on them.

As for Kap/Krap I'd agree spoken properly the r is clear (listen to the news or other Thai TV) but in reality most people drop it.

I hear the news readers say the 'r' in kap but, like the BBC, they speak a middle class, neutral version of the language and the street can be quite different... like Geordie

I suppose its like the Queens English.

In reality everybody uses a lazy version.

[bambergasgoigne]

To all my teachers on this board

thenk u all fair-ee muche.

I will never say Wha Hin again !
and I've never been to and will hopefully never go to พ(p) + ั(short 'a' as pronounced in 'part') + ท(t, as in tip) ย(y) + า(aa, as in arr)

and I'm not sure I'll ever get much further with my Thai than Sawadee, Sabay-di-may, Pang, Mangapoon.,

but I will keep trying.


Bamber

[Chas]

The only people you ever hear saying "Krap" and rolling the "r" as they do so, are those two guys in Bangkok who dub every foreign movie into Thai. In real life you never hear it. Not on TV in the soaps or in the TV newsrooms or on the radio. It is like "thee" and "thou" in English I would say and I don't know why books and tourist oriented handouts even bother mentioning "krap". (Actually, I have heard it used in real life when the Thai person is making a joke connected to putting on airs.)

Now, how about "Sawasdee" How many of you have ever heard anyone say the second "s"? It is always spelled with that second "s" but pronounced "sawatdee".

If "farang" is slang, what is the correct word then? The use of farang seems universal.

[DawnHRD]

To all my teachers on this board

thenk u all fair-ee muche.

I will never say Wha Hin again !
and I've never been to and will hopefully never go to พ(p) + ั(short 'a' as pronounced in 'part') + ท(t, as in tip) ย(y) + า(aa, as in arr)

and I'm not sure I'll ever get much further with my Thai than Sawadee, Sabay-di-may, Pang, Mangapoon.,

but I will keep trying.




Bamber

Bamber, I must admit to being curious as to what experience led to the inclusion of 'jellyfish' in those few basic words necessary to know in Thailand?

[bambergasgoigne]

Dawn

Sorry, just noticed yur question now.

I'd say Van Gogh had a better musical ear than me, (the one he cut off), so my best Thai words are ones that phonetically are easy to look at and say in English - Mangapoon, is one such word.

Anything that rises or falls in tone, no matter how often I say it, is met with a blank stare, so I forget these words very quickly.

If anyone wants to add to my vocab of nice easy English sounding words, feel free. You can hold a conversation on just about anything, no matter what the mix of words.

Bambers Street guide to Thai - Vol 1.
"Sawadee, Sabay di my, Cow pat gai, mangapoon and man farang toad kap, Tao Rye, Pang, Kap Khun Kap, Chi and Loy Hok Sip Ha Pitching kap. See you Pong Nee. "

"Hello, How are you, Fried Rice with chicken, jelly fish and French Fries please. How much. Expensive. Thank you. Tea and 165 Pitching Wedges please. See you tommorrow!"

[Vital Spark]

I know what you mean about the blank stare BG: One of the worst problems I've found here is when I try and use Thai and they think I'm speaking English. I'd love to have two little flags in my pocket. Wave the Thai one and try and converse in their language - at least then they might think that you are trying to speak Thai. If that fails then pull out the Union Jack and speak English.

The tones are incredibly hard to remember, but if (in my experience) they get to know you, then they will forgive your (tiger for a shirt) tone. It depends how forgiving and/or intelligent they are, as to whether or not they understand you. The best teacher I learnt with said, quite sensibly, don't worry about the tones (initially) they come later, people will understand what you say, even if you get the tones wrong. It really depends who you are talking to.

Stick with it and learn the lingo. They normally love it if you try, even if you get in wrong.

VS

PS: It's kop kun khap (a black policeman with a hat) - because I'm female I remembered it as a black policeman in a car...

[Roel]

Chase wrote:

Now, how about "Sawasdee" How many of you have ever heard anyone say the second "s"? It is always spelled with that second "s" but pronounced "sawatdee".

Well, to complicate things a bit. This is because many Thai consonants do have double sounds. They are pronounced differently depending on whether the are at the beginning or at the end of a syllable.

For instance the ส has an S-sound at the beginning and a T-sound at the end of a syllable. In สวัสดี (sa-waT-die) the second ส is the final consonant of the second syllable and therefore pronounced as a T. Hence the translator/transliterator has a choice: most choose for consistent transliteration and will certainly not use both (S and T) for the same Thai character in the same word. Hence sa-was-dee instead of sa-wat-dee. Although in different publications you will encounter both spellings.

Another example is the บ (initial B vs. final P-sound) that leads to confusion (eg. inconsistency) in the spelling of Prachuap vs. Prachuab.
For English speakers the difference between these sounds in this position in a word is insignificant and even for the Thais this particular example is easy to handle.

What leads to more confusion are characters like the ล (initial L vs. final N-sound). Now the transliterator is more or less forced to let his 1:1 translation go and use the N (the actual sound). Although this phenomenon is not likely to cause big problems in basic learning books because there are not many Thai words with the ล final N-sound that beginners will encounter.

Thanks for your attention.

[T.I.G.R.]

Wow, what an interesting topic. I have a few notes from my perspective, which are based on listening and attempted conversation rather than formal education.

I've been married to a Thai for nineteen years and living in HH for nearly two years. I learned very little Thai until we moved here due to the difficulty and the fact that my wife preferred to keep her language to herself.....no doubt so I wouldn't know when she was calling me an A***hole.

1) We haven't yet found a text or written language guide that spells anything like it actually sounds.

2) On my third computer interactive CD set and again, very little relation to conversational Thai, although it is the best I've found yet. "The Rosetta Stone" series.

3) At the age of 64 I gave up trying to learn the alphabet when I got stuck on the twentieth constanant.....maybe its the age or maybe I'm just to dumb to remember them all. At any rate, I'm now concentrating on just spoken Thai for awhile.

4) Most importantly, who you communicate with has a great deal to do with what the language sounds like, as you must be aware by reading the posts. Every region has it's own dialects, and even between families there is some difference in the way they pronounce words. I've been having an argument with my wife for several months now on "may" or "my".....she insists she NEVER says "may" and I hear it through my ears on a regular basis....I suppose the simple answer is when one speaks a language at regular speed there are lots of short-cuts and pronunciation differences from person to person. It's like "y'all" in America. It could be pronounced several different ways depending on geographic location and then depending on how conversant the speaker is with speaking a southern dialect.

As VS says, the best thing to do is try to imitate the Thais around you.....this will make good entertainment for them and you will eventually get the hang of whatever local dialect they speak. And remember that what sounds like Waa Hin to you may or may not be what the person listening hears.

Here's what a few things sound like to me at my house:

Waa-dee-cup or Saa Wat Dee - Hello/Goodbye

WHhhuaa Hin - Hua Hin

Jur Gun Prunee (roll the R) - See you tomorrow

My ben rai (roll the R) - never mind

My dee - no good

My die - won't work

Cob Coon Cup - thank you

Sue Ba dee la cup - how are you?

Suebaii - I'm good

The best thing to do as far as I see, once you have adopted the way you will say something is to say it fast......and if you get the blank stare ask them to teach you how to say it.

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And a note for those who do it.....Please stop saying and thinking Thai people are lazy, stupid and somehow less intelligent than you are. I have bit my tongue for a long time about this subject but the fact is Thai people are NOT stupid, inherently lazy or dumber than you are. They are the kindest people I've ever met and I will guarantee you the average Thai knows a lot more about our language than we do about theirs. For the most part Thai's work six to seven days a week for a meager wage most of us wouldn't even consider. They sleep during lunch because this is a hot humid climate. Would you sneer at a Spaniard for taking his afternoon siesta? Probably not. Just because Thai people do things differently than you do doesn't mean they are any less intelligent or ambitious......O.K., I don't know how to use those little icons but I'm "off rant" now.

Cheers

[bambergasgoigne]

3) At the age of 64 I gave up trying to learn the alphabet when I got stuck on the twentieth constanant.....maybe its the age

Tigger

you may not have mastered the alphabet, but at least you mastered typing. Well done.

keep the simple phrases coming. I bought a 3 pack CD today called Shortcut to Speaking Thai - MIS Studio. But I bet you it doesnt help.

Thought for the day - If I learn to read Thai letters (consonants and vowels), and can then actually read the road signs, will that help me, or will I just be getting lost in the Thai language instead of the English translation of it !!.

Bamber

[Roel]

Vital Spark wrote:

It depends how forgiving and/or intelligent they are, as to whether or not they understand you. The best teacher I learnt with said, quite sensibly, don't worry about the tones (initially) they come later, people will understand what you say, even if you get the tones wrong.

Cannot agree with your teacher VS. Of course from a pedagogical point of view it is good to motivate (or should I say not de-motivate) your students but you SHOULD worry about the tones and they REALLY not understand you even if they are well willing co-operative Thai academics. It is true however that some Thais cannot be bothered with any effort by farangs to speak Thai and will stubbornly pretend not to understand a word of what you are saying. But this is an exception, not the rule.

I am sure that there are members on this forum who can second my observation that the Thais tend to get less enthousiastic about farangs communicating in Thai once you become more fluent. You are coming to close to Thai-ness I guess, you are becoming a threat. (As long as you stay within the less the 100 words vocabulary and try to order your food in Thai it is all smiles and thumbs up though).

T.I.G.R. wrote:

the fact that my wife preferred to keep her language to herself.....no doubt so I wouldn't know when she was calling me an A***hole.

Heard this argument quite often. Sometimes jokingly said, sometimes seriously meant. As a matter of fact many farang girlfriends/wives do not encourage their spouses to learn Thai. They are not stimulating it and are not eager to help. From my personal experience I would say that this is because of the pressure from other people. More than once I experienced that my Thai girlfriend got reprimanded by other Thais because I spoke Thai so well. Do other members share this experience?

[buksida]

My experience has been the opposite and many Thais I know are more than impressed by my proficiency in their language - I get so many asking me to teach them English to the same standard.

I would be vary wary of any Thai that does not want me to learn more ... what are they trying to hide?

[Roel]

Well good to hear that Buksida. Especially because others I spoke to about this shared my experience. But I think it is not a matter of "hiding things". (In the end if they really do not want us something to know or understand we never will).
Like I said it is merely a natural (over)reaction: you are coming to close.
Maybe they gave up on you and I have to try hard to reach the next level.