Hey you!

[Bamboo Grove]

I remember how this call would annoy me and so many of my friends in the early 90's in LOS. You would hear it quite often when the locals wanted to get your attention and it did sound very rude.

Now, I've been watching the Swedish movie called "Beck" for some time and the way they use the word "du (you)" is quite an everyday thing and in no way impolite. It made me think about the old days and also how the Thais call each other "khun" or "ther" and it's not impolite.

In my own language (Finnish) using the equivalent of "you" i.e. "sinä" to call someone else would sound like they'd be angry with you so it is similar to the English use.

Just another example of how the languages are used in different ways in different cultures and how we may get upset because we don't undertand the local culture.

Or what say You?

[JoeSchmoe]

It is very interesting the multiple meanings that come from the most commonly used phrases and even nonverbal gestures! I am taking Intercultural Communication and it is no wonder there are so many misunderstandings between cultures. It is very complex and impossible to fully understand all cultures because we are so deeply invested in our own.

[PeteC]

Another which is not rude but to me seems straight out of a Tarzan movie is the habit of referring to yourself with your first name rather than I or me. I'm not sure if correct grammar in Thai, but the habit seems to be shared by many and not just children. Although, I do notice it more with females than males. Pete

[Bamboo Grove]

You're correct prcscct, it is a diminutive, and should be used only when talking to your superiour.

[BaaBaa.]

Another which is not rude but to me seems straight out of a Tarzan movie is the habit of referring to yourself with your first name rather than I or me. I'm not sure if correct grammar in Thai, but the habit seems to be shared by many and not just children. Although, I do notice it more with females than males. Pete

BaaBaa thinks that's correct grammar for Thais.

[Bamboo Grove]

BaaBaa thinks that's correct grammar for Thais.

Good one BaaBaa, that's a Liverpool fan talking to an Arsenal fan (see my earlier post)

[BaaBaa.]

BaaBaa thinks that's correct grammar for Thais.

Good one BaaBaa, that's a Liverpool fan talking to an Arsenal fan (see my earlier post)

BaaBaa says **** you!

[Jimbob]

So Thai street language or common speak is quickly evolving?
(What is the direct best Thai for Hey you?)

What jangles in my ear is the American ghetto 'Yo!' to get attention, a little grating to the my ear but better than 'hey youse' for pural.

[Roel]

There are several words for 'I' in Thai, from the insulting and potentially offensive goo (กู) to the very formal kaapajao (ข้าพเจ้า). The latter mostly restricted to written Thai and you can hear it being used in Buddhist chants for example.

For the Thai simply be choosing a certain word for 'I' they make an implicit social statement from "I am your servant" to "I respect you, we are equals" to "I am way above you".

The usage of referring to oneself in the third person by using your nickname is restricted to (young) females. Possibly sometimes males do it (especially young children) but it is a typical female thing Thais assured me.

Another way for females to refer to themselves is by using either noo (หนู) literally meaning mouse or small thing in general or nong (น้อง) meaning the younger.
Now there is a difference here. Using nong is a merely stating a fact: I am younger than you. Whereas noo has also a social implication: I admit you are above me in the hierarchy.

As in Thai society both being young and female does not help much in getting you high up in the picking order. Therefore it is not advisable for young females to use any form of 'I' as this implicates a certain importance or status that cannot be claimed in their position. So refrained from using a direct 'I' young females better refer to themselves in the third person.

So now she has the choice of using noo or nong. This can be quite a dilemma in certain situations. Luckily however the choice can be avoided by using their own (nick)name. Problem solved. Nobody loses face and that is where it is all about.

[Vital Spark]

Referring to the 'Hey, you!' phrase, I used to hear it a lot a few years ago when riding my bicycle around. It usually came from kids and I guessed they'd picked it up from a film, so although it grated I put it down to ignorance of the language. If I replied ' Hello, you. How are you today?' they'd scuttle off giggling.

The only time I hear it nowadays is from a very senior (but rather loud) Thai colleague of mine, when she wants to attract the attention of one of her Thai colleagues. She should know better because her speciality is English phonetics/linguistics, so when she says it it really grates. I've checked with other Thai colleagues and they confirm that it is impolite to shout such a phrase.

Roel: You've explained the noo/nong use so clearly. You could set up your own school teaching Thai to farangs...

VS

[Bamboo Grove]

Yes, that was a good one, Roel. The way Thais automatically decide whether they are above or below someone else when they first meet is based in an old system called "sakdina". Although it was officially abolished in the 1930's, it still affects the everyday life amongst the Thai. A bit like the caste system of India. The difference between the sakdina- and caste systems is that in sadkina you can move from one group to another.

from hrsolidarity net

THAILAND: Sakdina System and Promotion of Human Rights and Democracy
Mark Tamthai

(Ed. note: Mark Tamthai is a professor with the Centre for Philosophy and Public Policy of Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok, Thailand.)

The Sakdina system in Thailand was a system of social hierarchy in place officially until this century, with remnants still existing in different parts of contemporary Thai society. In contrast to some social systems found elsewhere, the Sakdina system was part of the legal system which King Rama I codified under the 3-seal Code (a legal code of more than 1,200 articles) a little over 200 years ago. This code gathered together laws that had been in existence for hundreds of years. In this sense the Sakdina system became institutionalised through the legal system. The essence of the Sakdina system is that different members of society have different social ranks (measured by the unit "Na") depending on their position or nature of work, how people are to behave towards one another as well as how much society considers their "worth" which depends on their Na. Consider the following examples from the 3-seal Code:

How much weight is given to a witness' testimony in a trial depends on the witness' Na. Higher Na means that person is more believable.

When a person with lower Na accuses someone of much higher Na, if the case is concluded in favor of the person of lower Na, then a moderate fine is levied against the accused. But if the case is against the accuser, then the punishment is much greater for having brought a case against someone of higher Na.

In the majority of crimes, the punishment depends greatly on the Na of the perpetrator and the Na of the victim.

Women, who are the first, second or later wives, have different Na, relative to each other and depending on the Na of the husband.

In some cases a person with higher Na must accept greater punishment than that of someone with lower Na for the same crime (as if more is expected of that person).

The fact that members of Thai society could have a change in their Na (either increase or decrease), as well as cases like example 5, shows that the Sakdina system was not just a simple system of the powerful in society exploiting the less powerful but rather an intricate and sophisticated system which evolved into an institutionalised inequality through law, establishing what was believed to be a desirable and harmonious society.

[Takiap]

Another which is not rude but to me seems straight out of a Tarzan movie is the habit of referring to yourself with your first name rather than I or me. I'm not sure if correct grammar in Thai, but the habit seems to be shared by many and not just children. Although, I do notice it more with females than males. Pete

In Thai culture, it is considered rude to address yourself as "me" or "I"


I have often seen Thai women pointing this out to kids, and the same applies to adults.

[Takiap]

About the "hey" word.......In South Africa, if I was to call out "hey" to someone, it would be considered extremely rude. Now, I often hear my mother in law call "hey, when she's trying to get my father in law's attention. I quite often have a chuckle at this and have commented on it several times. However, I have been informed it's actually quite a respectful word to you, especially if calling someone who is older or more senior to you. Even so, it still makes me chuckle, because in my country, you'd more than like get a slap for calling someone hey. As my old man used to say....."hey makes a bull shit"

[Roel]

Yeah, the good old sakdina. It has been discussed before. Looks pretty straightforward and simple at first sight but is extremely complicated and ambiguous. I reckon that the influence of sakdina will remain noticeable for generations of Thais to come. Did not know you could move up and down though!

In Thai culture, it is considered rude to address yourself as "me" or "I"

Not per se.

I have often seen Thai women pointing this out to kids, and the same applies to adults.

No it does not apply to adults. It applies to children and to young females as mentioned before because they are supposed to be modest and obedient. And by referring to themselves in the third person they show that they behave conform expectations.

[PeteC]

As an FYI, posts in this section always get an above average quantity of 'views'. This particular thread has over 300 in about 15 hours. Not many threads or other sections of the forum get so many, so quickly.

Take a look at the overall views of all the threads in this section: http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=23 Pretty impressive and says to me there is a lot of interest in what people post concerning speaking Thai.

Those of us who are able should perhaps try harder in posting up more information here. Maybe we should resurrect the "Thai Word of the Day" thread as one idea? Pete