What is your average electricity bill?

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benmo
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by benmo » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:44 pm

So. having paid for the transformer, does it effectively become public property with the PEA resposible for maitenance and repair?

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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by poosmate » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:35 am

The advantage of placing a transformer on public land is the maintenance/repairs are done by the PEA.
The disadvantage is as already pointed out that it can be shared. Hopefully the sharing will be restricted to sensible usage before another transformer is demanded.
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by hhfarang » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:18 am

The decision that we needed 3 phase, and the decision to put the transformer on public land were both made by one of our builder's supervisors who was my contact for construction advice or questions.

Since I was new here, and to cement and steel construction, I just trusted his judgement. He had spoken to me about what electrical stuff we would have in the house and said we would need 3 phase (three of our 8 Daikins are industrial ones, two sit about one meter square like a central a/c unit back in the U.S.). He suggested putting the transformer a pole away from the house because it is unsightly. Now that I think about it, it was probably a good idea considering the current state of my personal economy and that now I am not responsible for maintenance on the thing. He supposedly haggled with the electric company and got the best price he could for the transformer, up to six poles (I really don't remember how many) and the lines from the nearest pole to our house.

He was a Thai who had worked in the middle east, and other places, so spoke good English and I pretty much think he was trustworthy as he pointed out several things to my advantage during building that I would have overlooked.
The "FT" is fuel tax, and varies from time to time depending on the the price of oil. Why it is negative I have no idea, except to say that it MAY be an adjustment from an overcharge on the previous account.
Probably correct, as I looked back at a year's worth of bills and it was between +1k and 2k baht on all the others. :| I can only hope they realized that they have been overcharging us for a while and decided to pay it back in monthly installments so I'll continue to get discounts... yeah, right! :roll:
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Takiap » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:08 pm

hhfarang wrote:^ Do you have a thermometer in the house... I'd like to know what you consider comfortably cool... that would have to be 25c (maximum) or preferably less for me. I can set the aircon on 26 or 27 but then I still have to have a fan in addition blowing on me all the time. Right now, these cloudy and rainy days, the fan seems to be enough though during most of the day, but to sleep well, I need aircon (set at 26c) and two fans; a ceiling fan over the bed and a floor fan blowing up my side of the bed, both at the highest speed. I sleep buff and only under one sheet (while the missus is under enough quilting to sleep outside in the snow in Alaska for me :shock: :D ).

If I to sleep in those conditions I'd also have multiple duvets.... :shock: Bloody hell, all I have on is a single fan, and I still need a duvet, or on the warmest of days, at least a light blanket. Like I said, I think living for the last six or so years without aircon has caused my body to adapt. I just figured if the Thais don't need aircon, neither do I, and while I almost gave up a few times in the beginning, I've got used to it now.

As for the temperature inside our place - during the day I would say it's around 24 to 26 celcius at most. Saying that, we don't have insect screens (which restrict airflow) and we have every one of our windows open all day. Trees planted along the east and west sides of the house ensure the sun can't hammer us - talk about eco-friendly.....lol.


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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Nereus » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:30 pm

chopsticks wrote:Is there any ballpark figure as to when 3-phase is advisable eg. the possibility of exceeding 60 Amps on a single phase ?
I would guess that having 4+ air-cons, electric oven, hob, pool pumps, water and shower heaters would be approaching the limit for single phase especially if they're all on at the same time !!
While in theory there is no limit to what can be connected to a single phase, the practicality is much different. With any electrical installation it necessary to know both what the total load can be, and what the supply has available. This remains so regardless of whether the supply is coming from the PEA transformer, an engine driven generator, a solar panel, a wind driven generator, a donkey walking around, etc., etc!

Having established what the load is and what is going to supply it, you then have to consider how the two are going to be connected.

This is where it starts to become unravelled. There are fairly simple rules and formulas that can be used to calculate the cable size required, based on the proposed current draw, distance and type of supply being amongst the most important.

So there is not really a “ball park figure”, but I would say 15/45 should be the limit.

Thailand uses a strange connection system: 5/15, 15/45 and 30/100, where the first figure is the current flow that the meter is calibrated at, and the second figure the maximum current that the meter can carry. (quoting single phase sizes here, but I assume it is the same for 3 phase)

While the first two types are reasonable, the 30/100 goes against everything that I was ever taught about AC systems. Just the cable size required alone should rule it out. Depending on the type of cable and how it is installed, 100amps will need at least a 25 sq mm conductor. This is a big heavy expensive and difficult to install cable.

If you were to use a 3 phase supply for the same 100 amps, then just roughly, each phase will only need to be rated for 33 amps, which in the worst case, will only require a 6 sq mm cable. It is a bit more involved than quoted, but basically correct.

For efficiency of the distribution system the supply authority SHOULD be trying to keep their 3 phase network balanced. How can you do that when building A can draw 100 amps on one phase and building B next door, which SHOULD be connected to a different phase, is only drawing 15 amps?
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Nereus » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:51 pm

super joe wrote:But this is what I mean by being better of from a stable supply point of view by coming directly from the MV supplies and having your own dedicated transformer, that is sized correctly for your property (and future expansion to it), and that no-one else can connect into at a later date. You own it and it's on your property, although for whatever reason HHF's wasn't put on his land.
Yes, it would be good to have your own dedicated transformer, but hardly practical is it?
I guess 95 % of consumers do not have that option.
super joe wrote:This obviously makes the assumption that the 11kv or 22kv MV supplies are sufficient, but we've installed in 5 different locations over last 7 years and none have had any supply instability, only shutdowns for PEA works, whereas people in the road on 'the end' of LV supplies have all sorts of problems come early evening time.
With out being pedantic, you are confusing the issue with your MV / LV labels. In the context of grid power supplies, all voltages over 1,000 volts AC are considered HV. Voltage below 1,000 down to 50 Volts are LV, MV is not used.
The drop in voltage early evening is poor infrastructure, which can lead to damaged consumer equipment and the biggest noise possible should be made the the PEA to fix it. They have no problem charging some hapless customer 240,000 Baht for a transformer, and they are legally obliged to provide the service they are charging for. :cheers:
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Super Joe » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:47 pm

Nereus wrote:Yes, it would be good to have your own dedicated transformer, but hardly practical is it?
I guess 95 % of consumers do not have that option.
Sure, but it's the only practical option in my mind if we choose to live in a fast expanding town with insufficient infrastructure.


Nereus wrote:With out being pedantic, you are confusing the issue with your MV / LV labels. In the context of grid power supplies, all voltages over 1,000 volts AC are considered HV. Voltage below 1,000 down to 50 Volts are LV, MV is not used.
Electrical Power Industry Thailand: LINK
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...blimey Nereus even if I had used the wrong abbreviation would it really have been that confusing when I stated several times the actual voltages, whether they were the high or low hanging cables and even drew a sketch, most of us are laymen so gonna use some wrong terminology, but as long as we explain clear enough what we mean... did many of your apprentices have nervous breakdowns at all :laugh:


Nereus wrote:They have no problem charging some hapless customer 240,000 Baht for a transformer, and they are legally obliged to provide the service they are charging for.
Don't really wanna defend them as they've stung us more than any authority/contractor has, but it's probably a bit much (particularly with their 'abilities') asking them to bounce around Hua Hin running supplies down dirt tracks everytime a farang finishes another unlicensed development, plus working uneconomically as they don't know what will end up in the area. Much easier just to get us to pay :?




Found this on their website:
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Nereus » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:08 am

super joe wrote:...blimey Nereus even if I had used the wrong abbreviation would it really have been that confusing when I stated several times the actual voltages, whether they were the high or low hanging cables and even drew a sketch, most of us are laymen so gonna use some wrong terminology, but as long as we explain clear enough what we mean... did many of your apprentices have nervous breakdowns at all
Yes, like everything else here they make up their own interpretation as they know better, and the rest of the World does not exist.
The International Electrotechnical Commission and its national counterparts (IET, IEEE, VDE, etc.) define high voltage circuits as those with more than 1000 V for alternating current and at least 1500 V for direct current, and distinguish it from low voltage (50–1000 V AC or 120–1500 V DC) and extra-low voltage (<50 V AC or <120 V DC) circuits. This is in the context of building wiring and the safety of electrical apparatus.

British Standard BS 7671:2008 defines high voltage as any voltage difference between conductors that is higher than 1000 V AC or 1500 V ripple-free DC, or any voltage difference between a conductor and Earth that is higher than 600 V AC or 900 V ripple-free DC.

The definition of extra high voltage (EHV) depends on the context of the discussion. In electric power transmission engineering this refers to equipment designed for more than 345,000 volts between conductors
Any of my apprentices that are still alive will happily argue with you. :rasta:
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Nereus » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:41 am

super joe wrote:Found this on their website:Electricity Rates
Yes, that appears to be correct. The MEA in Bangkok use a different format which shows the sliding rate scale, whereas the PEA do not. Only the MEA shows the fixed "service charge" of Baht 40.90 per month, but it is added in on the PEA. All of my accounts are on table 1.1.2 , which probably applies to most of us.

Which just goes to show that the example I posted earlier somewhere is not exactly correct. :cheers:
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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by Super Joe » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:22 am

Nereus wrote:
The International Electrotechnical Commission and its national counterparts (IET, IEEE, VDE, etc.) define high voltage circuits as those with more than 1000 V for alternating current and at least 1500 V for direct current, and distinguish it from low voltage (50–1000 V AC or 120–1500 V DC). This is in the context of building wiring and the safety of electrical apparatus.
Any of my apprentices that are still alive will happily argue with you. :rasta:
Argue what... that the cables running down my road are really in a building :laugh:

INTERNATIONAL ELECTROTECHNICAL COMMISSION
1. Scope and object
This part of IEC 61000 is concerned with conducted disturbances in the frequency range from 0 kHz to 9 kHz, with an extension up to 148,5 kHz specifically for mains signalling systems. It gives compatibility levels for public medium voltage a.c. distribution systems having a nominal voltage between 1 kV and 35 kV. The medium-voltage systems covered by this standard are public distribution systems supplying either:
a) private installations in which equipment is connected directly or through transformers, or
b) substations feeding public low-voltage distribution systems.


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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by somtumtiger » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:03 pm

Townhouse - 2 story, 3 bdrms, Soi 41 - 2,000 average.

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Re: What is your average electricity bill?

Post by shinzl » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:13 pm

around 3000/m

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