Buying your dream home, or nightmare.

[hogus]

The house in the UK is worth approximately 10 times that of the house in Thailand. If you can't trust your own wife with 10 per cent of your real estate assets then you really have to question whether you have married the right woman - whether she is Thai or Farang!

Well, Jaime, as I post before, "just buy a house; if you're sure to be rich enough to give it to your Thai-girlfriend as "special gift" .

I live now for 12 years in Thailand.
You don't believe at all, how many broken marriages between Thais and foreigners I saw.
...also so-called, initial "lucky" marriages.
Principal reason was mostly the greedy of the Thai wives and her family after comfortable prosperity without tiresome, foreign "appendix".

It's great to hear, that in your relationship all seems to be ok.
... and I wish to you furthermore a lot of luck!!!

On the other hand, nobody can look in the future.
If one recognizes that he has married the wrong wife, it's already too late.
My parents have taught me:
"Trust is good, control is better!"

I think Thailand doesn't offer a good investment opportunity yet, because everything is built up only on loyalty and belief and/or very risky (il)legal interpretations.
Hence, ingenuous investors should not be horrified if one day everything gets lost.

Actually, I ask myself, why so many foreigners want to buy a house in Thailand?
In their home countries they would not even buy a bicycle, without suitable legal security!

Could it be that the climate is too hot here for some???

[hunterroute]

Not the climate, but perhaps the girls !!!!!

[PeteC]

Look at it from a different angle. A five million baht house equals about 14 years of rental payments at 30,000 baht per month. If you have the 5 million in cash, you can earn about 5% per annum or more on the unspent balance over that 14 year period as well. If you have to borrow 80% of the 5 million to buy the house, that probably up's the rental years you could have by 4 or 5. So, I guess the bottom line is...will the house really appreciate? Will you live long enough to see and enjoy the proceeds? If not sure, rent and also avoid all the possible other pitfalls in buying in Thailand mentioned in previous posts. Pete

[hogus]

Hey Pete, absolutely agreed!

That's exactly the way I go for many years in Thailand.

I have invested my money in Europe ... from the interest I can pay comfortably my rent and lifestyle in Thailand.
If I don’t like the house, the neighborhood or the rental conditions anymore, I can move to another house without any worries.

What does one want more?

[Jaime]

For the moral crusaders here I hear you asking why I don't put it in my wife or sons name. Simple, my son cannot legally own anything until he is 16

Presumably you mean me! I'm no moral crusader and cycnicism is an essential survival trait in LOS as far as I am concerned but a debate with only one point of view is not a debate! Sharing experiences is what this web site is about ain't it? As for the second bit, you are of course correct about the age limitation.

I know that in your situation all seems fine as you have a Thai wife and ok you bought in her name, but the post was really about the dangers of the many couples buying out here with their life savings and no thai partner.

Yes, if in that situation I agree that one would have to think twice about what the 'investment' was really going to mean for a purchaser.

It's great to hear, that in your relationship all seems to be ok.
... and I wish to you furthermore a lot of luck!!!

Cheers!

But if i recall our conversation you had just remortgaged your house in the valleys to pay for your new home in Hua Hin. you also stated that you wanted to buy in total 4 houses.

This would seem to be a rather large investment here and in your wifes name.

I fully understand your point about trusting your wife but as we all know even the best of marriges can and do break down, so i think you have look at risk assesment.

Mike, you have a very good memory - comes from many years of business I guess. Yes, like many others buying holiday homes, I released capital by remortgaging my property in the UK but importantly it's a mortgage I can afford to pay (I hope!), whatever happens with the house in Hua Hin, and I think that is the key point in my own case. As for the other 4 houses, and this is really for another thread, my experience of having a single house built in HH means that investing beyond the scope of acquiring a holiday home is a much less attractive option to me than it once was and it is also partly to do with the fact that living in Thailand (which I would have to do in order to invest more heavily) is a less attractive option than at other times in my life. Like many on this forum I have a see-sawing love-hate relationship with the place but it will always be a part of my life. But you are right, in that instance it would be a large investment not in my name - if things went wrong, God forbid, I could be left high and dry! I totally agree with this last point about risk assessment. On that point, and to put things into perspective for those merely buying a holiday home, a modest bungalow in Hua Hin can be purchased for a similar price to a two week time-share slot in Spain. You don't legally 'own' the property in either case but personally speaking I think I'd prefer the bungalow in Hua Hin.

ingenuous investors should not be horrified if one day everything gets lost.

We are in agreement Hogus! But I also think this applies when you invest anywhere in developing countries, whatever the specific application of property laws in relation to foreigners is. Things such as the general political climate, war, religious & racial tensions etc. can all have a bearing on whether you lose your shirt in such places. Nobody quite knows what's around the corner in these places and as per Thailand, laws can be made and unmade on a whim.

Lastly jamie, your house in the valleys is ten times that of the value of your one in thailand. I never realised you could get a house in Hua Hin for less than 500,000bht

Cheeky bastard!

[lomuamart]

Interesting thread here and it's late at night.
Agree that it went a little off topic. The main thing is not whether you trust your Thai partner, but about the rights you may, or may not have as a forigner trying to own property over here.
Personally, I think it's all a bit risky. When faced with a choice of whether to sell a property in central London and possibly buy property over here, there is no contest for me. Thailand just dosn't offer the rewards or security.

[Randy Cornhole]

I agree totally. Until the law changes it is too risky to invest in a property unless you can afford to right it off.
It's a shame we can't all decide not to buy and force their hand.
They want all the cake and the bloody icing as well.
If we all stayed away from Thailand for one year it would severly effect Toxic's coffers.
But sadly they would just scratch their heads and say "oh ho, ting tong ferang not come this year"

[niceday]

Who drives up the price of houses in places like hua hin.
Foreigners.
If foreigners and their companies can't own land it seems logical that the houses etc would not fetch the same prices.

[buksida]

There are more than enough rich Thais here with their condos and Benzes also so I would not put the sole blame on foreigners.

[hogus]

Ordinarily you are right, Buksadi.
However, unfortunately, it's to be observed that more and more foreigners destroy the normal prices.

Just a small example:
In my street a Townhouse was offered for sale.
The price was fixed from the Thai-Owner about 800.000 Baht (the “normalâ€

[Viseman]

The trick is to find a bar you really like and just pass out in that every night!

[Rider]

Hogus you tell it like it is brother!

If the Falang rose-tinted brigade (FRTB) could be made aware of the ways of thailand housing risks and not contribute to higher costs of housing we'd probably have to build our own bunker and defend it from the besieging thais!
With Buksida leading the defences

[philip]

OK boys, on considering the thread contents carefully, I as a prospective buyer, am now sufficiently persuaded not to !!! I live with risk in everything I do, but this is not a sensible one.

Obviously one caninstead, take a short lease, of the right property which suits your requirements, of one month to say five years, but has no one tried to get, say, a 10/15/20/25 year lease, with or without breaks ? I'm not trying to be facetious, simply looking at the situation within the parameters of the law as I understand it; if you can't buy and must therefore lease, then lease for a long enough term to be equivalent for all practical purposes to be equivalent to a freehold !

And don't pay the rent monthly, unless you want to of course, but instead put the lease in your family name and pay what is called in UK commercial property, a "premium", ie a capitalised equivalent of the rent for the term of the lease, discounted because it is paid in advance. You will then have an inflation-proof, legally legitimate right of occupation for the term you want, and an inalienable leasehold interest !!! There could be incoporated, a right to "assign" the lease to a suitable assignee, who could hypothetically pay you, the tenant, an appropriate "premium" to reflect the value of the balance of the lease - comparing the then current rental value with the fixed amount you assumed in advance. Capitalisation of this "profit-rent" may even permit you to live effectively rent free, should you decide to sell your leasehold mid-term.

The only mechanism that could prevent this arrangement is the Law of Thailand, but I doubt if it is sufficiently sophisticated in property matters to have reached this degree of detail.

I'm amazed that no Thai entrepreneur has gone down this route, ie investing in long-term residential lettings for the freehold reversion after say 20 years. Better than a goddam pension....

Sawat dee kraap.

Philip
(Fellow of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors)

[Rider]

So in laymans terms its a lease you sub-let on to recoup the lease cost. Hmmm. As long as the price paid for the lease and the rent income exceeds the profit margin....

Phillip that is one damned interesting idea, however I'm sure that falangs are barred from this avenue unless you put it in a thai name. I know from the strange diving falangs on Koh Tao that all the properties are on a 100 year lease from the King (as its his island) and the home-owners are given squatters rights. all falangs there who have property have it in their womans name.
You'd also have to get the agreement sorted via the thai owner first who may/may not even consider it.




What do the forum lawyers think of this idea???

[HonoluluJimmy]

I have been told by HH realators that due to e the Amithy Treaty signed by HRH he King and US President Lyndoy Johynson in 1968 that US citizens can own a house with 1 Rai.....I have benn invited to look at the law in two offices in HH and "GO Shopping"

Any oher info?