Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

[Nereus]

Volunteers discharge pumped water back into flooded cave

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... ooded-cave

CHIANG RAI: Unregistered volunteers negligently pumped water back to underground sources and obstructed rescuers' attempts to drain Tham Luang cave as soon as possible to allow the evacuation of the trapped footballers before water rises.

Tham Luang operation commander Narongsak Osotthanakorn said on Thursday morning that some volunteers who had not been registered to join the rescue mission had arrived and started pumping water back into the ground. Consequently, the water returned to the partially flooded cave.

"They may have some belief that their technique is effective for ground water drainage, but anything that is not in the plan must be discussed with us first," said Mr Narongsak, the former Chiang Rai governor.
"We are concerned about rain. We are racing against water. Water is flowing into the cave although we have plugged its channels."

Mr Narongsak said pumping water out of the cave was the main operation at Tham Luang. Authorities had fully deployed pumps and power lines. Phone lines had not yet reached Noen Nom Sao, the high ground where the trapped boys and their coach were found by divers deep inside the cave complex. A new phone was being taken into the cave after a previous device fell into the water and stopped working.

Rescue supervisors were also concerned about delays in receiving updates of information from the boys. It took 6-7 hours for a diver to make the round trip between the site and the forward command in the third chamber of the cave where rescuers could phone supervisors, who would make decisions at the entrance of the cave.

Another main task on Thursday was to locate a promising opening on the ground surface, up the mountain, above Noen Nom Sao where rescuers could bore a shaft for a possible alternative evacuation, instead of the boys having to dive out.

About 30 teams of rescuers were combing the ground surface above the cave.

Mr Narongsak said rescue teams were estimating the time available before a forced evacuation in the event of more rain and a critical increase in flooding in the cave.

As of Thursday morning, pumps were able to lower the water level in the cave by over one centimetre an hour. The number of flooded passageways where people must dive to get out of the cave remained the same.
Swimming instruction for the boys was continuing.

The 12 boys aged 11-16 and their 25-year-old football coach have been trapped by flooding in Tham Luang cave since June 23. Divers finally found them on Monday night.

[Nereus]

Just been listening to Thai tv. It seems the kids have said that while they were waiting to be found, they could hear dogs barking and chickens squawking!

https://au.news.yahoo.com/rescuers-look ... 26791.html

As Thai navy seals continue to give their crash courses in swimming and diving to the 12 schoolboys and their soccer coach trapped in a cave, it’s been revealed there may be another way out.

Rescue teams initially didn’t plan to rush the boys and their coach out, but heavy rains forecasted for later this week are threatening to push forward those plans.

But the boys have now told rescue teams, including expert diver Claus Rasmussen, that during their nine days trapped in the Tham Luang Nang Non cave in northern Chiang Rai, they have heard dogs barking, roosters crowing and children playing.

According to CNN, crews are now looking at if there is a hidden passage that they may be able to access rather than the incredibly dangerous alternative – a crash course in scuba diving.

Experienced divers are wary of taking out the boys through the dark and dangerous waters still in the cave, especially since they are untrained.

“We are talking kilometres of transport under the water with zero visibility,” said Claus Rasmusen, a certified cave diving instructor based in Thailand who has been helping Thai SEAL team with logistics. “It’s difficult.”
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I guess that when you are disoriented and in the dark, your mind will "hear" what your subconscious is hoping for?

[PeteC]

If you look at that BBC photo/map on page #5 it's evident that there are roads, cultivated plots and houses all the way up the side of the mountain to the left of the cave tunnels. As you're not allowed to build or live on mountains here my assumption is that those are Hill Tribe settlements who are exempt from that restriction so I'm told. I guess it's possible for sound to travel through the tunnels if there are any small openings at all close where those mountain villages are. Pete

[MDMK]

Actually, it's very relaxing. You don't feel the weight of the gear. Only taxing part is swimming against a current.

I could win medals in claustrophobia. Just skimming this post taxes me. Greatly. I hope those poor kids have more of your mindset than mine.

[JWWhite]

Virtualization graphics ThairathTV

[centermid7]

I'm afraid the boys were hearing things. If the info is accurate and to be believed they are 2+ miles into the cave and a half mile down from the surface.

[PeteC]

phpnKTTjuPM.jpg (91.87 KiB) Viewed 292 times

[JWWhite]

Hathai Pia
@HathaiPia
Thailand Correspondent at German Press Agency

Just in: one SEAL officer died from loss of air

The man has been identified as Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Saman Kunam (ret), who died on his way out of the cave after supplying one of the chambers with oxygen tanks.

[Nereus]

I just hope that some of these nutters are kept well away from the cave. The people at the coal face are highly trained and experienced, and despite what may be good intentions, some of these ideas are just fantasy.
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Skateboards, turbines among rescue ideas

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... scue-ideas

Tubes, skateboards and turbines are being suggested as possible ways to help get the 12 trapped boys and their football coach out of Tham Luang cave faster.

Many people have written in to the Bangkok Post suggesting their ideas.

Alan Bate suggested using a miniaturised, motorised propelling device with a good battery life and a strong LED light.
Another writer, Roman Zitniak, suggested using turbines and strapping each boy to the body of a rescuer.

"A boy will be attached to the body of the rescuer (on their belly) and both will breathe from an oxygen tank attached to the back of rescuer. Two different oxygen masks will be used, with the boys having a choice of using a more comfortable full-faced mask if they are unable to use a standard one.

"The rescuer will use a small turbine, the same used in sea diving. Lights can also be attached to the turbine in order to help navigate in dark waters," he wrote.

Alan Clarke suggested fully enclosed immersion suits similar to those used during submarine escapes with flexible hose coupling systems.

If the divers can reach the children with rebreathers, rescuers must ensure simple built-in breathing systems can be installed.
"The immersion suits would alleviate any temperature or breathing issues. Even a panicked child would be secure," he wrote.

Brett Fitzgerald suggested using a tube to evacuate the children.
"If they made some tubes that were water tight and could fit a child in, they could pull the boys up by rope through the dangerous part of the submerged cave. It would save time as opposed to having to teach the kids how to use scuba gear," he wrote.

A similar idea was proposed by Arthur Willemse and Marc Thiadens.
"Is it not possible to put a flexible pipe in the cave till it reaches the boys? They can crawl through or/and be pulled by a rope. Just drive the pipe in the hole and, as it comes to the boys, pump out the water, or close it at the end before it goes in the hole," Mr Thiadens wrote.

Henry Crichlow, a US-based engineering professor, provides an illustration of a rope-attached skateboard in a steel tunnel which he hypothesises could bring the boys out of the cave.
Henry Crichlow, a professional engineer, provided us with a drawing demonstrating transporting the boys on rope attached to a skateboard in a steel tunnel.

Phil Collett emphasised the importance of stopping the flow at places where flood water is going underground.
He and his friend suggested using mixed materials instead of rocks to build dams. "If it were me, I would consider using a mix of cement and bentonite dispersed in diesel, and pumping this into the upstream face. The bentonite will hydrate almost immediately on contact with fresh water and expand to fill and block flow paths," he said.

Even Tesla and SpaceX founder Elon Musk shared his thoughts on the matter. Responding to a query by Twitter user @MabzMagz, he wrote: "Boring Co has advanced ground penetrating radar and is pretty good at digging holes. Don't know if the pump rate is limited by electric power or pumps are too small. If so, could dropship fully charged powerpacks and pumps."
"I suspect that the Thai govt has this under control, but I'm happy to help if there is a way to do so," he added.

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[RCer]

Can I have some of what these guys are smoking? Looking at that drawing they clearly don't understand what "underwater: means.

Only time effort is needed in SCUBA is when working against a flow. Otherwise cave divers use a very efficient Frog kick that does not stir up muck and is easy on the leg muscles as well as air consumption.

[Nereus]

Elon Musk’s team in talks with Thailand about rescue

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... recent_box

SAN FRANCISCO: Representatives for Elon Musk are in talks with Thai authorities about aiding in the rescue of a boys’ soccer team stuck in a cave, said a spokesman for the billionaire.

Mr Musk’s companies could help by trying to locate the boys’ precise location using Space Exploration Technologies Corp or Boring Co technology, pumping water or providing heavy-duty battery packs known as Tesla Inc Powerwalls, the spokesman said.

It’s unclear whether Thai officials will accept the offer.

Twelve boys and their coach, who had been missing since last month, were found by a pair of British cave divers late Monday. Efforts to rescue them are hampered by narrow passageways and rising waters in the cave system. Most of the boys cannot swim.

Last year, after a devastating hurricane hit Puerto Rico, the government there asked Mr Musk for help. Tesla sent Powerwalls and provided advice on rebuilding the Caribbean island’s infrastructure.

Over the last couple of days, Mr Musk posited possible ways his companies could help in Thailand. “I suspect that the Thai govt has this under control, but am happy to help if there is a way to do so,” he wrote on Twitter.

Mr Musk’s tunnelling startup Boring Co could potentially make available its massive drills or excavation expertise, but such an approach could be too dangerous for this mission.
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It has to be kept in mind, even if not being reported, that Thai superstions are going to be considered. Read the previous post about caves in general, and this cave in particular.

[Big Boy]

I've just heard on the radio that one of the rescuers has died whilst making the 5 hour journey out of the cave after delivering supplies to the boys. I guess this demonstrates the dangers of a 'swimming' rescue.

[Edit] Sorry, I've just seen it has already been reported, 4 posts up

[HHTel]

Just read a report that P. Chano -cha cha cha is promoting the caves as a tourist attraction on his facebook page. He's reported as saying that because the caves are now so famous they're destined to be a major tourist attraction in the future.

The boys are still stuck down there with no safe 'extraction' and he's already counting the tourist dollars.

Unbelievable!

[Nereus]

Update to the seal death:
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Rescuer dies during dive in flooded Tham Luang cave

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... recent_box


A former Navy seal taking part in the rescue of 12 young footballers and their coach trapped Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai passed out during a dive and died early on Friday morning.

Naval Special Warfare Command chief Apakorn Yukongkaew said Petty Officer 1st class Saman Kunan, 37, who was a security officer at Suvarnabhumi airport, lost consciousness as he was returning used oxygen tanks to Chamber 3 about 1am.

His diving buddy tried to help, but in vain.
Rr Adm Apakorn stressed that the former Seal's tragic death will not undermine the effort to rescue the boys.

He said His Majesty the King had given instructions that Petty Officer 1st Saman be given dignified funeral rites.

Chiang Rai deputy governor Passakorn Boonyaluck also said the King expressed his condolences over the loss of Petty Officer Saman. A royal bathing rite will be held at Sattahip Naval Base in Chon Buri on Friday evening.

The King also gave instructions to that the dead diver's children be well taken care of.

The death underlines the intense risks of the mission to rescue the young footballers, but the Seal commander insisted the rescue will continue nonstop until it is complete.

The rescue teams are now pumping oxygen into the underground chamber where they have been trapped for nearly two weeks as officials warned it is still too dangerous to extract the young team through flooded caverns.

The oxygen issue has raised new fears about the safety of the boys if they cannot be extracted from the caves before predicted monsoon rains this Sunday which authorities fear could re-fill the cave and reverse gains made in the mammoth rescue effort in recent days.

Narongsak Osoththanakorn, the commander of rescue operation, said the large number of rescue workers now in the cave had lowered oxygen levels and workers were feeding a 5km cable to where the boys have been sheltering to pump fresh air into the cavern.

Pumping continued overnight to drain water from a still-flooded section of the cave where the boys remain trapped in the hope it will recede enough to allow rescuers to float the boys out, rather than have to shepherd them through dark, narrow passages in murky water.

So far, more than 130 million litres of water have been pumped out of the cave at a rate of 180,000 litres an hour, but rescuers are still struggling to plug every water source that flows into the cave and water levels beyond the fork of the cave where the boys are trapped has been agonisingly slow to drop.

Mr Narongsak told reporters overnight that it was still too dangerous to try and shepherd the boys out underwater.

[Nereus]

Two 'sick' boys could delay rescue of soccer team from Thai cave

https://au.news.yahoo.com/two-sick-boys ... 43711.html

Two boys and their football coach, trapped in a Thai cave with nine other children, appear too weak start the long journey out.

Rescuers are continuing to try and save the 12 Thai boys, aged between 11-16, and their 25-year-old coach trapped inside Tham Luang Nang Non cave in northern Chiang Rai after they went missing nearly two weeks ago.

Crews have been pumping out 100,000 litres of water each hour as the possibility of the children diving to freedom is also considered.

But a navy source has told CNN two of the boys and the coach are suffering from exhaustion. The source, who hasn’t been named, said it’s due to malnutrition and in their weakened state it could make it almost impossible for them to journey out of the cave.

It means rescuers may have to take the healthiest our first with the sick children having to wait.

A lot of them are weak due to being trapped on a muddy ledge with no natural light. Thai Navy SEALS have tended to wounds and provided food for them. They have also begun pumping oxygen into the chamber.

The journey reportedly takes six hours from the cave’s entrance to where the team and their coach are located. It takes fives hours to get back.

Earlier, Governor Narongsak Osatanakorn said Wednesday that “all 13 may not come out at the same time”.
“If the condition is right and if that person is ready 100 percent, he can come out,” he said.

He said the boys have practised wearing diving masks and breathing, but they haven’t attempted any dives yet.

Soccer coach was a former Buddhist monk

The coach, named as 25-year-old Ekkapol Chantawong, is in a weakened state because he’s been sacrificing his share of food, the ABC reported.
His aunt said Mr Chantawong spent a decade as a saffron-robed Buddhist monk and believes he’s meditating while waiting for rescue, which would be calming the children.

State University of New York psychology professor Michael Poulin agreed the 25-year-old’s Buddhist faith could help the children.

“I’d speculate it could be helpful — even if it functioned solely as a way for the children to feel like their coach was doing something to help them,” he said.
“Feeling loved and cared for is paramount.”

Stanford University’s medical school’s Paul Auerbach said “it’s very likely” the boys suffered “various degrees of anxiety, fear, confusion, vulnerability and dependency, and perhaps hopelessness” while waiting to be found by rescuers.

“Being discovered was a moment of elation,” Mr Auerbach said.
“But that is now followed by the reality that a difficult technical rescue might be necessary, which carries with it disappointment for the boys and a new set of fears.”

Thailand’s Department of Mental Health said hospitals are already making preparations to care for the boys and monitor their mental health. The department is also working with the families to prepare for how to interact with the boys once they get out, such as not digging for details about what they endured.