University Shooting in Virginia USA!

[Wanderlust]

The Michael Moore documovie is called 'Bowling For Columbine' in case you are interested understudy, and goes into many of the questions being asked here. He goes as far as to try to make a comparison with Canada, who have jusy as many guns but far far fewer deaths from guns than the US, but it has to be said that these types of comparisons (between different countries), although they highlight the stark differences in the statistics, do not always explain them. However I will rely on the logical advice my parents always gave, which was that any weapon you have puts you at more risk because any attacker can get hold of it and use it against you. As lomu said, the UK and it's population have been reared on the idea that unreasonable force will land you in jail, and particularly when guns are involved. I hope it is not changing as much as he says it is, but fear he may be right.

[The understudy]

Hi there Mr. Lomu and Wanderlust

Thank you very much for your enlighting insights into MM Film "Blowing for Colombine" I'd had only seen the MM Movie Farehheit 9/11 and which was pretty contrevercial to me.

Through you 2 Mods I had learned a lot today Thanks a lot!

[BaaBaa.]

As lomu said, the UK and it's population have been reared on the idea that unreasonable force will land you in jail, and particularly when guns are involved. I hope it is not changing as much as he says it is, but fear he may be right.

Fatal stabbings are daily news in the UK now though.

Even to the point that School uniforms may soon be made with Kevlar.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... html?f=rss

[PeteC]

But you don't ban things. I've already said the majority of those in the USA badly want 'change' concerning guns, but not a ban.

Scotland has now banned knives, swords and even ceremonial swords for &*^sakes. Why...because of a minority of bad guys.

Thailand in wee steps, jerks and starts is in the process of banning alcohol. Why...because they can't educate people to drink responsibly.

If I do enough reading I can probably come up with a half dozen other examples from around the world.

Have we as a society come to this? Pete

[Wanderlust]

It appears, though, that knife crime is just the latest thing for the UK press to jump on, as according to the statistics the level of fatal stabbings has been the same for the last 10 years, although I was quite surprised that the level was 5 fatal stabbings every week, or 260 per annum. Even so, far better to have that problem than the one facing the US...

[Wanderlust]

But you don't ban things. I've already said the majority of those in the USA badly want 'change' concerning guns, but not a ban.

Scotland has now banned knives, swords and even ceremonial swords for &*^sakes. Why...because of a minority of bad guys.

Thailand in wee steps, jerks and starts is in the process of banning alcohol. Why...because they can't educate people to drink responsibly.

If I do enough reading I can probably come up with a half dozen other examples from around the world.

Have we as a society come to this? Pete

Actually the way a society should deal with things that are regarded as 'bad' for you is to tax them into oblivion - it's the most effective way. In the US though, I wouldn't necessarily tax guns as that would be seen as 'unconstitutional', but I would put a massive sales tax on bullets. Thus you would have a right to bear arms, but would think several times before firing them!

[BaaBaa.]

It appears, though, that knife crime is just the latest thing for the UK press to jump on, as according to the statistics the level of fatal stabbings has been the same for the last 10 years, although I was quite surprised that the level was 5 fatal stabbings every week, or 260 per annum. Even so, far better to have that problem than the one facing the US...

Thought as much. Just didnt look up the stats.

The good old English press.

[PeteC]

Actually the way a society should deal with things that are regarded as 'bad' for you is to tax them into oblivion - it's the most effective way. In the US though, I wouldn't necessarily tax guns as that would be seen as 'unconstitutional', but I would put a massive sales tax on bullets. Thus you would have a right to bear arms, but would think several times before firing them!

The logic is sound! Pete

[PeteC]

From the New York Times. Some positive steps, but highlights the exisitng confusion and lack of coordination. From what I read, the State of Virginia may be in for a law suit from the families of those slain that could bankrupt the State. Pete
_______________________________

WASHINGTON, April 20 — Under federal law, the Virginia Tech gunman Seung-Hui Cho should have been prohibited from buying a gun after a Virginia court declared him to be a danger to himself in late 2005 and sent him for psychiatric treatment, a state official and several legal experts said Friday.

Federal law prohibits anyone who has been “adjudicated as a mental defective,â€

[vincent chang]

To say gun control is a local issue and not a national or state issue is unrealistic. anybody in america can buy a gun at the states where the restrictions are few, and just toss it in the trunk of his car and drive wherever he wants to be. I am positive that just because guns might be technically illegal in san francisco does not stop many old time san franciscans from owning one. The police do not seriously enforce that law anyway unless you are carrying one on the streets. I agree with Pete, where he said that the underlying cause of the tragedy was not the gun, but the motivation for the gunman. The gunman obviously was bent on hurting people and could have used poison, gas, or an explosive as well. The Oklahoma city bombing killed many more people with just a mix of fertilizer and diesel fuel. Like I said before, I think the anti depressant drugs that doctors are prescribing for kids today, has the side effect of suicide. and a lot of these kids want to bring a lot of others down with them. Until we can get the doctors and drug companies to stop from profiting on this legal drug trade, things will get worse.

[sargeant]

Why not blame the global warming advocates scaring the natives then you can avoid talking about gun control AND keep your mega huge suvs

personally i dont care if the usa does not deal with gun control the problem will stay in the usa

the UK and Australia have dealt with it to the point it is eradicated as much as it POSSIBLY can be

VC NO guns NO shootings very very simple

[gooze]

As a number of people have mentioned America is strange.

My big sister who lives in New York sleeps with a gun in her bedside dresser, this is normal behavior for her. The problem is what would happen if she had to use it, does she even know how?.

I do beleive having lived in the US more restrictive gun laws would cut down the murder rates. By how much is debatable, I do not have stats to back this up although I think the infos pretty good something like 83% of gun related murders in the US are carried out with illegal guns. Although if the gun laws were more stringent maybe this would make the accessability of guns harder.

I beleive anyone pretty much anywhere in the world can get hold of a gun shoulds they want one. Then weather or not your prepared to use it is another matter.

I do not want a gun,never have, not prepared to use it. Although thankfully never been put in a posistion where I felt I needed it.

Even having spent over 4 years in US never occured to me to buy a gun.

Also after last weeks nonsense about the American who wanted to bring his guns here. I find it somewhat interesting Mr V Chang has declined to comment on this thread. That or maybe I just skipped it as it would have made me agitated.

[gooze]

Just seen your post on this subject. Hate to admit it but a sensible post that I pretty much entirly agree with.

Now thats a first!

[lomuamart]

Fair enough, VC - to a point.
However, it seems like you were trying to shift some of the blame onto drug companies at the end of your post. Maybe not, but that's how I read it.
Whilst those companies may be guilty of further depressing people with their medication, I don't really think the argument's pertinent in this instance.
In fact, a lot of the blame must be squarely put on the authorities who allowed him out and within easy reach of firearms. I thought that was what part of the debate in the USA was about? It dosn't seem to revolve around the availability of guns (the NRA would have something to say about that), but rather about whether any particular person is responsible enough to own one.
IMHO, a rather backward way of thinking. I don't want to go into it it anymore than that, except to say I'm not exactly a proponent of the gun lobby. Others are naturally welcome to their views, I just hope I don't get some raving, depressed, suicidal maniac who found it easy to legally get hold of firearms bearing down on me or my family.

[sargeant]

I think mr Miller an american comedian on the NRAs mr oreillys show the factor put it absolutely perfectly

quoteish after hearing the seller of the gun to mr cho saying it took 10 minutes to buy it!! mr miller said there is something drastically wrong here because it takes more than 10 minutes to buy a starbucks coffee
A week ago that would have been hilarious not so funny now is it

I Like you lomu think that it seems the USA VC and fox news are trying to shift the blame anywhere except smith and wesson winchester colt remington glocch and the NRA hence my sarcastic remark about blaming global warming

How can a country like the USA which purports to be educated allow the NRA to argue that gun controls wont work when in the USA they have never been tried
It has worked in the UK and Australia

As petes post says the state will be sued the university will be sued why no set of legal class action law suits against the NRA for stopping gun control

Oh and a FOX news poll 19% think gun controls are good 71% think they are bad now i wonder who paid for that poll