And quite correctly said.Onlyme wrote:Just letting people know that they have an alternative.
You made it sound like they only had one option.
New Visa Laws
Thinking about it in my ruined state :
I don't have any option on the "marriage" extension - it's 40k for me.
The great thing about a "retirement extension" is that it can be done on 800k, or 65k a month, or a combination of the two and it's pretty painless. The marriage thing goes on for ages "under consideration", visits from immigration etc etc.
I don't have any option on the "marriage" extension - it's 40k for me.
The great thing about a "retirement extension" is that it can be done on 800k, or 65k a month, or a combination of the two and it's pretty painless. The marriage thing goes on for ages "under consideration", visits from immigration etc etc.
Erm ... I don't think you'll get a Thai passport mate.BEARHUG wrote:
POS AND NEG'S, DO YOU STILL KEEP YOUR ORIGINAL PASSPORT SO DUAL CITIZENSHIP?
Residency is essentially a five year visa where you get a Thai ID card, you need to have stayed in Thailand on non immigrant visas for 3 consecutive years. You don't get many more privileges than that ... oh and it costs around 200k and they only accept 100 applicants per year.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
-
bozzman101
- Guru
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: urainus
Post #1
Right Honourable Member
Group: Super Moderators
Posts: 1,540
Joined: 2004-03-19
From: Thailand
Member No.: 8,384
Since nobody has done it before, here's my guide to the Permanent Resident application process:
Disclaimer
These are my personal experiences as a single guy living in rented accommodation in Bangkok and working for a Thai company. The details of the process differ from year to year, from province to province, and according to the applicant's situation and reason for applying. This is a guide, not the bible.
Do you need a lawyer?
It doesn't make any difference to Immigration if you use a lawyer or not. It doesn't make you look better or worse. But it does affect the process a little.
A legal firm with experience in PR applications should be able to give you useful advice on how to provide a "portfolio" showing your contribution to society, ensure all your Thai-language company documents are correct and complete, handle translation of documents, and save you some running around. Your own company lawyer - if you have one - can probably help with everything except the portfolio.
If you hire a legal firm, it will probably consider the approval of your application to be the end of the process. If you want them to help you with the various steps after approval, you'd better put that in the written agreement so it's understood by all. If you hand over a lot of documents to them, make a list and get them to sign for them in case any go missing.
Myths
You don't need to be married to obtain PR. There are minimum salary guidelines for each nationality, but these aren't written down and they aren't set in stone. In some circumstances you can apply if you fall short of the minimum salary.
Preparation and documents
First, go to Immigration (Room 301 at the Suan Phlu Office in Bangkok), tell them which category you are applying in (Investment, Work/Business, Humanitarian, Expert) and request the appropriate documents. They'll give you a sheet "Detailed Information Needed for Residence Permit Applications," TM.9 Application for Permanent Residence, a Personal Information sheet, a sheet titled "Documents required when applying for a residence permit in the category of [whatever you requested]," a sample medical certificate and a sample form for submitting Thai-language maps of your home and workplace.
Many of the 20 documents listed are related to your employer, work and tax record for the previous 3 years and must have been signed (or issued) within 3 months of making your application. Some documents must be translated into Thai and certified by your embassy. Educational certificates must be translated into Thai and certified by the Foreign Ministry.
Others documents on the list include:
(2) a medical certificate as per their official sample (the one that declares you free from syphilis and elephantiasis) issued by a hospital in the 3 months prior to the application date.
(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.
(17) maps in Thai language of your place of residence and work (if applicable).
(19) "Personal Information sheet and the applicant's portfolio, which includes detailed information about family background, knowledge and ability, working experience, special ability, social work, work place, residence together with photo (using the A4 document folder)."
The photos required are of the exterior and interior of your home and workplace. It might be a good idea to have yourself in the photos too.
The portfolio depends on what you have available. The purpose of the portfolio is to establish that you are an upstanding citizen who is unlikely to get into financial or other trouble in the future. Anything that portrays you as a somebody, as someone who is a cut above the rest or as financially secure is worth submitting. Some suggestions:
* Complete resume going back to school.
* Letter to Immigration from yourself detailing your contribution to Thai society.
* Documents supporting your contribution to society.
* Reference letters from senior Thais supporting your good character and application. Obviously, the more senior or well-known, the better. Give your referees a template letter in Thai to make it easier for them.
* Membership of charitable organizations.
* Membership of non-profit organizations, such as chambers of commerce.
* Newspaper clippings mentioning you or written by you. Any publications written by you.
* Certificates or diplomas.
* Copies of bank books, certificates of transferring money into Thailand, share certificates, pension records, provident fund records, condo ownership and other assets.
Applying
Immigration is open for applications from about mid-December until the last working day of the year. Only two weeks. You take your file in and an officer will check the documents. Quite likely there will be something that needs correcting or updating, but from now on you deal with this officer so it's easier to get questions answered. You'll also get your fingerprints taken at this point.
The officer will give you an appointment sheet with details of the date and time for your interview and Thai-language test in March or April and tell you to bring along your annual Income Tax return (Por Ngor Dor 90/91) and company tax documents for December. This officer isn't a total expert on documentation, so don't be surprised if you get requests for corrected/updated documents right up until June the following year.
The Interview
In my case, the officer who interviewed me was the same one who accepted my application and documents 4 months before, so things were pretty relaxed and friendly. I had a young lawyer with me. Since I speak Thai pretty well, the whole discussion was in Thai. Mostly it was about the documents, my background, and the PR process. Every now and again a question came right out of the blue, like "What religion are you?" So I got the impression my Thai language skills and general demeanour were being examined. The officer typed on a PC the whole time.
After the discussion, she printed out a long statement (in Thai) from the computer, asked the lawyer to read it to me and explain anything I didn't understand, and then we both had to sign it. The document was a long series of statements such as, "I explained to the applicant that after receiving notice of a successful application, he must come to the Immigration office within 30 days. The applicant said he understood." In fact, some of the statements hadn't been made in the interview.
After we'd signed, she asked the lawyer to leave. Then she gave me a sheet of 10 multiple answer questions written in Thai. Since I don't read Thai very well at all, she read the questions and the answers, pointing at the ABCD answers as she read them. Some of the answers had little pictures which made them easier. With some of them, you could tell just from the answers which was the odd one out, even if you didn't understand the question.
Some of the questions were pretty easy, some required a basic knowledge of Thailand (How many provinces there are, etc), and one was about the PR process (i.e. the stuff I had signed in the statement). The only problem I had was that the questions were phrased in formal written Thai style rather than the spoken Thai I'm used to. If I didn't understand the question, it was pretty easy to figure out the question from the answers.
The test doesn't take long. After that, you go into a partitioned area and introduce yourself in Thai while they record it on camera. It looked like an ordinary Sony still camera to me, so the video mode would probably not be more than a couple of minutes. I kept my intro short, but I was asked a couple of questions after I finished.
Approval letter
I received my approval letter 16 months after making the application. The letter is in Thai but there are separate instructions in English on what documents you need to get the Certificate of Residence (you must do this within 30 days):
1. Original and copy of passport (certified true copy by you)
2. Original and copy of the House Registration book of your residence (certified true copy by the owner) and details of the local police station whose jurisdiction it is in. You will be put on this House Registration later.
3. 12 4x6cm photos not more than 3 months old.
4. Fee of 191,400 baht (if single) or 95,700 baht if the spouse of Thai national or PR holder paid in cash or by cashier's cheque (in Bangkok only). A copy of any cashier's cheque.
Picking up the Certificate of Residence
When you go to Immigration they give you a sheet "Procedures in obtaining the Certificate of Residence (TM.16)" that describes most of the following procedures. In Bangkok they will take you to Room 202 and you'll never deal with Room 301 again.
You pay the fee, give them 4 photos, have your thumbprint taken and give some information that will be forwarded to your local police and end up in your Alien Registration book. They will take the embarkation form out of your passport and write the details (i.e. flight number) of your last entry into Thailand on it. Then they'll stamp your passport with details of the Certificate of Residence. At some point in this process they will decide how to spell your name in Thai and may not ask you about it. If you want it spelt correctly, find some diplomatic way of giving it to them early on. You pick up your Certificate of Residence (actually a book) the next day and take it plus the letter they give you to your local police station. You must do this within 7 days of submitting your documents, not 7 days from receiving the Residence Certificate.
Obtaining the Alien Registration Book
You take the Residence Book and the letter they give you to the police, along with 4 photos, tabien baan (House Registration book), and copies of your passport, Residence Book and tabien baan. Plus the police will need the names of your mother and father in Thai script. Pay 400 baht for the current year and 800 baht for the next 5 years. Pick up the Alien Registration book a couple of weeks later. Then start the process to get put on the tabien baan.
Being put on a House Registration book
You apply at your district office to be put on a tabien baan. You'll probably deal with someone senior and have to provide copies of passport, tabien baan, Residence Book and Alien Book. There is no charge at all. After submitting the documents, they give you a letter which you take back to Immigration and make an appointment to go back to the district office. Immigration then gives you another letter which you take back to the district office.
For the second interview at the district office you need two Thais to act as witnesses. One will normally be the owner of your residence. The officer will ask you all a lot of detailed questions (how you know the witnesses, what's your blood group, etc) and write out an interview form for each of you, to which he'll add your photo and thumbprint and send them to the Interior Ministry "as evidence." Then you are put on the tabien baan and have reached the end of the process.
Traveling outside Thailand
Before taking a trip outside Thailand you must apply for a 1-year endorsement of your Residence Book (1,900 baht) and a re-entry ("non-quota Immigrant") visa in your passport (1,900 baht single, 3,800 baht multiple) valid for one year.
What you get
Certificate of Residence
Alien Registration Book
Attached File(s)
residence_cert.jpg ( 101.75k ) Number of downloads: 888
aliens_book.jpg ( 124.69k ) Number of downloads: 583
Right Honourable Member
Group: Super Moderators
Posts: 1,540
Joined: 2004-03-19
From: Thailand
Member No.: 8,384
Since nobody has done it before, here's my guide to the Permanent Resident application process:
Disclaimer
These are my personal experiences as a single guy living in rented accommodation in Bangkok and working for a Thai company. The details of the process differ from year to year, from province to province, and according to the applicant's situation and reason for applying. This is a guide, not the bible.
Do you need a lawyer?
It doesn't make any difference to Immigration if you use a lawyer or not. It doesn't make you look better or worse. But it does affect the process a little.
A legal firm with experience in PR applications should be able to give you useful advice on how to provide a "portfolio" showing your contribution to society, ensure all your Thai-language company documents are correct and complete, handle translation of documents, and save you some running around. Your own company lawyer - if you have one - can probably help with everything except the portfolio.
If you hire a legal firm, it will probably consider the approval of your application to be the end of the process. If you want them to help you with the various steps after approval, you'd better put that in the written agreement so it's understood by all. If you hand over a lot of documents to them, make a list and get them to sign for them in case any go missing.
Myths
You don't need to be married to obtain PR. There are minimum salary guidelines for each nationality, but these aren't written down and they aren't set in stone. In some circumstances you can apply if you fall short of the minimum salary.
Preparation and documents
First, go to Immigration (Room 301 at the Suan Phlu Office in Bangkok), tell them which category you are applying in (Investment, Work/Business, Humanitarian, Expert) and request the appropriate documents. They'll give you a sheet "Detailed Information Needed for Residence Permit Applications," TM.9 Application for Permanent Residence, a Personal Information sheet, a sheet titled "Documents required when applying for a residence permit in the category of [whatever you requested]," a sample medical certificate and a sample form for submitting Thai-language maps of your home and workplace.
Many of the 20 documents listed are related to your employer, work and tax record for the previous 3 years and must have been signed (or issued) within 3 months of making your application. Some documents must be translated into Thai and certified by your embassy. Educational certificates must be translated into Thai and certified by the Foreign Ministry.
Others documents on the list include:
(2) a medical certificate as per their official sample (the one that declares you free from syphilis and elephantiasis) issued by a hospital in the 3 months prior to the application date.
(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.
(17) maps in Thai language of your place of residence and work (if applicable).
(19) "Personal Information sheet and the applicant's portfolio, which includes detailed information about family background, knowledge and ability, working experience, special ability, social work, work place, residence together with photo (using the A4 document folder)."
The photos required are of the exterior and interior of your home and workplace. It might be a good idea to have yourself in the photos too.
The portfolio depends on what you have available. The purpose of the portfolio is to establish that you are an upstanding citizen who is unlikely to get into financial or other trouble in the future. Anything that portrays you as a somebody, as someone who is a cut above the rest or as financially secure is worth submitting. Some suggestions:
* Complete resume going back to school.
* Letter to Immigration from yourself detailing your contribution to Thai society.
* Documents supporting your contribution to society.
* Reference letters from senior Thais supporting your good character and application. Obviously, the more senior or well-known, the better. Give your referees a template letter in Thai to make it easier for them.
* Membership of charitable organizations.
* Membership of non-profit organizations, such as chambers of commerce.
* Newspaper clippings mentioning you or written by you. Any publications written by you.
* Certificates or diplomas.
* Copies of bank books, certificates of transferring money into Thailand, share certificates, pension records, provident fund records, condo ownership and other assets.
Applying
Immigration is open for applications from about mid-December until the last working day of the year. Only two weeks. You take your file in and an officer will check the documents. Quite likely there will be something that needs correcting or updating, but from now on you deal with this officer so it's easier to get questions answered. You'll also get your fingerprints taken at this point.
The officer will give you an appointment sheet with details of the date and time for your interview and Thai-language test in March or April and tell you to bring along your annual Income Tax return (Por Ngor Dor 90/91) and company tax documents for December. This officer isn't a total expert on documentation, so don't be surprised if you get requests for corrected/updated documents right up until June the following year.
The Interview
In my case, the officer who interviewed me was the same one who accepted my application and documents 4 months before, so things were pretty relaxed and friendly. I had a young lawyer with me. Since I speak Thai pretty well, the whole discussion was in Thai. Mostly it was about the documents, my background, and the PR process. Every now and again a question came right out of the blue, like "What religion are you?" So I got the impression my Thai language skills and general demeanour were being examined. The officer typed on a PC the whole time.
After the discussion, she printed out a long statement (in Thai) from the computer, asked the lawyer to read it to me and explain anything I didn't understand, and then we both had to sign it. The document was a long series of statements such as, "I explained to the applicant that after receiving notice of a successful application, he must come to the Immigration office within 30 days. The applicant said he understood." In fact, some of the statements hadn't been made in the interview.
After we'd signed, she asked the lawyer to leave. Then she gave me a sheet of 10 multiple answer questions written in Thai. Since I don't read Thai very well at all, she read the questions and the answers, pointing at the ABCD answers as she read them. Some of the answers had little pictures which made them easier. With some of them, you could tell just from the answers which was the odd one out, even if you didn't understand the question.
Some of the questions were pretty easy, some required a basic knowledge of Thailand (How many provinces there are, etc), and one was about the PR process (i.e. the stuff I had signed in the statement). The only problem I had was that the questions were phrased in formal written Thai style rather than the spoken Thai I'm used to. If I didn't understand the question, it was pretty easy to figure out the question from the answers.
The test doesn't take long. After that, you go into a partitioned area and introduce yourself in Thai while they record it on camera. It looked like an ordinary Sony still camera to me, so the video mode would probably not be more than a couple of minutes. I kept my intro short, but I was asked a couple of questions after I finished.
Approval letter
I received my approval letter 16 months after making the application. The letter is in Thai but there are separate instructions in English on what documents you need to get the Certificate of Residence (you must do this within 30 days):
1. Original and copy of passport (certified true copy by you)
2. Original and copy of the House Registration book of your residence (certified true copy by the owner) and details of the local police station whose jurisdiction it is in. You will be put on this House Registration later.
3. 12 4x6cm photos not more than 3 months old.
4. Fee of 191,400 baht (if single) or 95,700 baht if the spouse of Thai national or PR holder paid in cash or by cashier's cheque (in Bangkok only). A copy of any cashier's cheque.
Picking up the Certificate of Residence
When you go to Immigration they give you a sheet "Procedures in obtaining the Certificate of Residence (TM.16)" that describes most of the following procedures. In Bangkok they will take you to Room 202 and you'll never deal with Room 301 again.
You pay the fee, give them 4 photos, have your thumbprint taken and give some information that will be forwarded to your local police and end up in your Alien Registration book. They will take the embarkation form out of your passport and write the details (i.e. flight number) of your last entry into Thailand on it. Then they'll stamp your passport with details of the Certificate of Residence. At some point in this process they will decide how to spell your name in Thai and may not ask you about it. If you want it spelt correctly, find some diplomatic way of giving it to them early on. You pick up your Certificate of Residence (actually a book) the next day and take it plus the letter they give you to your local police station. You must do this within 7 days of submitting your documents, not 7 days from receiving the Residence Certificate.
Obtaining the Alien Registration Book
You take the Residence Book and the letter they give you to the police, along with 4 photos, tabien baan (House Registration book), and copies of your passport, Residence Book and tabien baan. Plus the police will need the names of your mother and father in Thai script. Pay 400 baht for the current year and 800 baht for the next 5 years. Pick up the Alien Registration book a couple of weeks later. Then start the process to get put on the tabien baan.
Being put on a House Registration book
You apply at your district office to be put on a tabien baan. You'll probably deal with someone senior and have to provide copies of passport, tabien baan, Residence Book and Alien Book. There is no charge at all. After submitting the documents, they give you a letter which you take back to Immigration and make an appointment to go back to the district office. Immigration then gives you another letter which you take back to the district office.
For the second interview at the district office you need two Thais to act as witnesses. One will normally be the owner of your residence. The officer will ask you all a lot of detailed questions (how you know the witnesses, what's your blood group, etc) and write out an interview form for each of you, to which he'll add your photo and thumbprint and send them to the Interior Ministry "as evidence." Then you are put on the tabien baan and have reached the end of the process.
Traveling outside Thailand
Before taking a trip outside Thailand you must apply for a 1-year endorsement of your Residence Book (1,900 baht) and a re-entry ("non-quota Immigrant") visa in your passport (1,900 baht single, 3,800 baht multiple) valid for one year.
What you get
Certificate of Residence
Alien Registration Book
Attached File(s)
residence_cert.jpg ( 101.75k ) Number of downloads: 888
aliens_book.jpg ( 124.69k ) Number of downloads: 583
Once you go Asian you will never go Caucasian !!
-
JimmyGreaves
- Legend
- Posts: 2913
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:06 am
- Location: HuaEireHin
-
bozzman101
- Guru
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: urainus
bozzman,
We don't allow links to that forum as they religiously block ours.
It would also help, if you have to quote other peoples posts from another board, to put a date on it so we know how relevant it is.
We don't allow links to that forum as they religiously block ours.
It would also help, if you have to quote other peoples posts from another board, to put a date on it so we know how relevant it is.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
-
bozzman101
- Guru
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: urainus
-
JimmyGreaves
- Legend
- Posts: 2913
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:06 am
- Location: HuaEireHin
-
bozzman101
- Guru
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: urainus
On the subject of the retirement visa - I hope I have got my head around the financial requirements for foreigners ie. husband and wife - 800,000 baht each in a Thai bank account for 3 months or in the alternative 65,000 baht per year income each or a combination of both.
If we each have the 800,00 baht in a Thai bank account for 3 months do we still need a letter from the embassy - seems to me that the bank book itself would be sufficient evidence of savings - does anyone have any experience of this please.
Also can we apply in Hua Hin for the first retirement visa or do we need to visit immigration in Bangkok. I understand that the renewals can be done in Hua Hin.
I also thought that it was mandatory to supply police checks from your country of origin - does anyone know if this still applies ?
If we each have the 800,00 baht in a Thai bank account for 3 months do we still need a letter from the embassy - seems to me that the bank book itself would be sufficient evidence of savings - does anyone have any experience of this please.
Also can we apply in Hua Hin for the first retirement visa or do we need to visit immigration in Bangkok. I understand that the renewals can be done in Hua Hin.
I also thought that it was mandatory to supply police checks from your country of origin - does anyone know if this still applies ?
Life is what you make it
From my experience (I'm on retirement), 800,000 in the bank for three months plus a letter from the bank within the last few days to confirm it (cost 100 bt) is all you need. The embassy is out of the equation and I've never had to produce any police reports. As long as you have a non-o visa on entry, then you can get it extended as a retirement visa in Hua Hin.
I can't recall seeing a case like this before being talked about on here? Do both husband and wife really need duplicate funds? Can't the wife piggyback onto the husbands retirement visa as a dependent and one funding requirement cover both? Petejaneria wrote:On the subject of the retirement visa - I hope I have got my head around the financial requirements for foreigners ie. husband and wife - 800,000 baht each in a Thai bank account for 3 months or in the alternative 65,000 baht per year income each or a combination of both.
No Pete, the wife is a dependent, she does not require her own 800K, but she will need her marriage certificate. The link is on here someplace, just cannot find it at the moment.prcscct wrote:I can't recall seeing a case like this before being talked about on here? Do both husband and wife really need duplicate funds? Can't the wife piggyback onto the husbands retirement visa as a dependent and one funding requirement cover both? Petejaneria wrote:On the subject of the retirement visa - I hope I have got my head around the financial requirements for foreigners ie. husband and wife - 800,000 baht each in a Thai bank account for 3 months or in the alternative 65,000 baht per year income each or a combination of both.
Try this: http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/vi ... 9&start=60
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!