low cost housing for thais

[sargeant]

jaime
ref shouting got it will try not to do it but i do it to draw attention to the point im trying to make but shouting no im to bluddy old now to give myself ulcers and been here in Hua Hin too long to remotely believe i can change anything but hope springs eternal and people do win the lottery
i think if breezeman has the answer then this thread has been worthwhile fingers crossed

my worry is for my son and daughter where are they going to live
my worry is for the nice people who are going to end up as collateral damage here and loose there savings

when i came here you could get every falang in cha am in the chicken coop bar and hua hin in bernies bar now you will need wembly (exaggeration) if you get my drift and thats in 9 short years

i just feel that if the property people get it together and take care of the locals the rope will stretch a bit further or at least allow the people that are already here to live out their dreams in peace and quiet

i am also trying to point out that a farang with a thai wife using small plots of land could get a nice little earner for their retirement how they do it i dont know but i am sure there is a way something like put it in her name

[Burger]

Back to the topic, I don't think that the Thais who are now selling and renting their houses for ten times the original value are complaining too much.

I don't think the local Thais that are selling their previously valued 200k/rai land, for 2M/rai care too much.
I don't think the local Thai restaurant/bar/market stall/shop owners/taxi drivers who are making good money off the influx of farangs care too much.

Yes, Thai's will have to reside further outside of town more, but I don't think ordinary working class Thai's really care whether they live 2km's from the centre of town or 7km's, not judging by the few (ok not too many) that I have spoken too.

Burger

[sargeant]

what a bummer i have now spent half an hour twice on this reply checking commas dots etc and then showing my rookie status i have twice clicked and lost both of them bummer

I agree the thais selling dont give a toss and i dont for them good luck to em. It is the thais that will be hard pushed to find somwhere they can rent let alone buy and who are getting resentfull that i am worrying about

I agree the thais have a wonderfull nature all the more reason to look after them and i hope they dont change (sahto)

Burgher if you are talking to the same thais on a regular basis as ido it is more than likely you will get there true feelings in time.I find thais i dont know are very guarded and tend to say what they think you want to hear.
my thai friends are showing concern for their kids futures same as me

if anyone finds my first 2 replys in the ether/hyperspace delete them and pease patience im a learning

[packie]

hi all,
Wwould it be financially benifical to biuld a block of cheap appartments on a bit of land near a pineapple factory, 200 wah site should hold 16 bangkok style 1000/2000 baht/month condos, if you pack em tight, but wages are only 3000 ish a month, so even if 2 3 girls share a flat , it still seems very expensive.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but i thought you might have some thoughts as i have been thinking about this for a while,

I woulkd probably be looking in some of the other towns , not hua hin cham pran buri, as land too dear, maybe prachuap?

Also, if i rent to thais, using a thai agent i guess(probably an in-law) can i evict them if they dont pay rent, i ask as squatting seems popular.

any thoughts

pat l

[Burger]

With regards to the construction of low cost housing, there are tons of single storey and double storey town house/terraced room thingy's being constructed all over town.
There's 3 alone being built where I live in Soi 94.

If there's not enough going up then there's a market for someone to make some money and you can bet the shrewd Thai's will be there.

Burger

[sargeant]

packie
that is bang on topic i started this thread to try and find out if any falang was going to consider it as a serious investment because as jaime and others say the rich thais and property developers will chase the fast buck every time and to hell with the consequences.
If i had the money i would have been doing it for some time i just dont have it.
ref. eviction for you and burgher, the real catalist for this thread was what happened in my street.
i moved into this street 6 years ago and made a good friend of a nice guy called Lun he was already here when i arrived. He and his wife worked in a large furniture store he as junior mgr and her on checkout(good income for thais)
5 months ago he and another lady 2 doors the other side of me were given one month to get out (luns wife 6 months pregnant) They were both paying 2000 bht a month rent
The original reason was the landlord wanted to store furniture. The day after they moved out the decoraters moved in, 2 weeks later up went the for rent sign and they were now 12000 and 10000 bht amonth (i am buying my place on a mortgage for 6000 a month) i am sure you can see they werent aiming for thais. Burgher i am 3 kms from town a 2 bed terrace/town house if that is the rent here what is it gonna be at the places you and norseman have pointed out. I will go and look at these places but its the rents they will be wanting for them which is the factor
I still think however that for a falang in the position to do it it is a good investment if it is aimed at long term rental to supplement a pension. Because at 100% occupancy it is a steady income.
Packie the word in your reply i would consider is bangkok agreed they are 1000 to 2000 but at bangkok wages bangkok land prices you should be able to rent them lower here get the same %age return and they will be filled
I am happy that we have now with breezeman and packie 2 people looking and i hope norseman and burgher are correct and there are more places

[DawnHRD]

Loads of two storey studio flats for Thais going up here (Bon Kai/Khao Pitak), too. This area has really seen some development in the past 18 months - shophouses & apartments (for Thais) going up on every spare piece of land.
Not sure of all of the prices, but about 9 months ago they completed an apartment block right in front of the dog center, which looks quite nice from the outside & we were told rent for those apartments would be 2,000bt per month. Not really cheap, but definitely geared to Thais rather than farangs.

[Guess]

harrods chelsea fulham man utd are owned by ALIENs

I would be breathtakingly naive and arrogant to not think the thais dont feel the same way

the clamping down and strict adherence of visas and property law is i believe just the first sign of discontent hopefully it wont escalate SAHTO

I would like to make comments and ask some questions on the three statements that you have posted above.

On the ownership by Aliens isue do you have the same feeling about the vastly greater amount of business owned by the British abroad which at least until recently exploited the locals and left them in poverty for the sake of making huge profits for their shareholders in their Fatherland.

It is not breathtakingly naive and arraogant to think that the Thais don't think the same way. It is obvious to anyone who lives in a Thai environment that they mostly do think differently about many issues. As Buksida said below your post, many have benefited from the rise and some have become very rich. In fact overall they have benefited more than the farang by a very large factor. Most of the landowners and developers even in Hua Hin are still Thai or Chinese/Thai

"I would be breathtakingly naive" to think that the land ownership and visa tightening laws are in any way connected to the cost of housing for Thais in tourist areas. These laws are obviously farang orientated but I can not see any connection between that and house prices.

On a general note this new low cost housing that is required for all these Thais in Hua Hin is required for migrant workers who come to Hua Hin voluntarily to seek higher paid employment. This in itself will push up housing costs.

As for the mention of the fact that no development is done in the cheap housing area, that is nonsense as Norseman has pointed out. I used to live in Soi 96 myself and at that time was one of only two farangs in a development of about 50 units. The development was being expanded. My wife and I knew the developer quite well and he came from the same part of Thailand as my wife and they spoke the same language meaning they could talk openly without the risk of others easliy understanding them. I put many questions to him via my wife and sometimes directly in English regarding his reason for developing low cost housing rather than just contruct 3 or 4 high cost bungalows for farang. He explained the business rationale and when I sat down with a sreadsheet in front of me it made total sense and guaranteed a long term income rather than a quick return. The question I would now ask is why more developers do not do the same. Well I think the answer is quite simple in that the market has found it's natural level.

I have had many staff that have moved down here from the North and North East to seek employment and they have never had proble finding low cost housing although it is more than what they have been used to, the increase in salary well takes care of the differential.

In most of you posts you have mentioned foreigners and Aliens. How long and how many generations have to reside in a country before you accept them as nationals and what status do these people have in the meantime before they become acceptable to you.

As for foreign ownership of Chelsea is concerned, I grew up and did most of my schooling in that part of London and am a lifelong Chelsea supporter. I am very happy that is now under foreign ownership.

It seems that from your goldfish bowl you have got a very distorted view of the world especially here in Hua Hin. Without living with Thai people for years you will have no idea whatsoever what their thoughts and resentments are.

I look forward to your comments, but please no shouting.

[sargeant]

dawn thanks for that with norseman breezeman you and burgher i am beginning to feel maybe things are getting balanced my experiene with my friend lun however still leaves some lingering doubt

guess please note the bottom of my posts i am an alien here i accept it
its the aliens that dont i have problem with in any country.
but i am
1. obeying the thai laws ish (dont like crash hats)
2. all of my finances are in thailand or arrive here every month
3 i am taking care of 3 thais wife her daughter and son
4. I am not a fugitive
5. I poot thai nit noy cowjai yut
6. i am not trying to make money out of thailand

i think businesses and holiday homes are totally different a holiday home is a one off gain for one wealthy thai the poorer thais get little to buggerall out of it
businesses (tesco lotus etc) at least produce employment for the poorer thais however i would prefer it if they were thai owned

I have lived in a soi as the only falang for 6 years i have lived solely in hua hin cha am for 9 years i have 2 thai wives stretching 22 years (how many years before i can comment) (maybe i am in a fish bowl but it has been a 100% thai fishbowl) my experience of thai thinking is that i have found they do think the same as us they do have the same fears thoughts and ideas they may come at it from a different angle and more diplomatically but boiled down they still think the same.
In a previous post in answer to burger i explain that in my experience it takes quite a while before thais stop telling you what they think you want to hear
I also am not an employer i never told my bosses what i really thought of them myself

As for the tightening of visas and property law it is political and as no falangs can vote and politicians dont do anything unless it is a sure fire vote winner why do you think they did it, if all the thais are happy with the way it was. I am more than happy to hear your reasoning for why although of topic

however i am happy that there are signs that my original premise that there were no places being built at sensible rents seems to have been because i havent looked in the right places i am not sceptical but i will when it stops bluddy raining to much go and looksee and be very happy to be corrected

As for chelsea my last uk address was northend road bates you either loved him or hated him but now a russian, gimmee a break, mind you he has done chelsea well and at least his profits wont go back to russia hes a wanted man there apparrently (ABC australia tv) I was an Oxford untd supporter until maxwell another alien did us down the tubes i cant spell check

[Guess]

As for the tightening of visas and property law it is political and as no falangs can vote and politicians dont do anything unless it is a sure fire vote winner why do you think they did it, if all the thais are happy with the way it was. I am more than happy to hear your reasoning for why although of topic

From a reliable source that I am not prepared to name and from what I have heard from a local immigation office is that this move is the start of a revamp of the whole visa scenario. The intention stated by the Thais but translated into English in the press was that the Thais want to get rid of the bad boys and nake it easy for foreigners to live and work here if they are doing things honestly. The thing is that the Thais alwasy do things in s different way from that of the West and currently were are in limbo land with the visa situation and nothing positive. I am assured that it will all fall into place eventually. Of course the "coup" has now happened which could slow things down but on the other hand if it is in the interim govenrment interest it could speed them up.

BTW (Not topic I know but I felt an earthquake just then. 16:49).

As for the land law changes it was just the enforcement of a law that had always been in place. Everthying happened quickly as a result of the discovery by outside agencies that international crooks were using land and proerty deals in Thailand as a way of laundering tens of millions of US dolars in a very ingenious and profitable manner. Land was purches with diry cash that had been converted to Baht unnoticed by the Thai banks and use to purchase land and developed houses. These houses were then sold outright or as timeshares to foreigners in their own countries which were mainly Australia, the US and Canada and Europe. This way one million dirty dollars was converted to 1.25 million clean dollars in about two years. As an ex bank employee I cna ssure youn that that is a very good return on a laundery operation. Most operations take a hit and would be happy to change 1 million dirty for .9 million clean.

The relevance of topic her though is that these were all in the secon home and holiday time share market and should not have any direct effect on local housing costs and they actually did provide work, as all building projects do, employment for Thai people.

So the only link that I can see between the two situations is that many of the illegal operatives may have using tourist visas or repetetive visa waivers and of course they would have been labelled badboys. I think you will find that both the visa changes and the land ownership loopholes were scheduled for review before this all came to light and well before Thaksin was forced to resign. My guess it was one of the proposals actually laid down by the early days of TRT supremacy.

[splitlid]

well it really isnt cost effective to build rentals here for thais.
. say at a cost to build of 200,000 baht per unit.
rebt 2000 per month
thats 24000 baht per year
minus maintainance say 1000 per year
so that 2300 per year.

to get your money back will take ohhhhhhh approx 8.7 years

bad investment i reckon

[Burger]

Exactly splitlid, you're not going to get a foreigner come here and miss out on making quick money by developing property for low rental.
The foreigners are building homes for foreigners (generally speaking, maybe the odd Thai buys on a farang built estate??)

I would of thought it's fair to assume that your small-to-medium Thai developers will be building places for Thai's to stay in.
But then I'm simple.

Burger

[PeteC]

I would of thought it's fair to assume that your small-to-medium Thai developers will be building places for Thai's to stay in.
But then I'm simple.Burger

Just for comparison, there are many of those type Thai places being built and already existing over here, hundreds of developments. Single family houses on about 50twg, 3 bed, one bath, 900,000. Two bedroom in attached townhouse style, 650,000. People that are buying these are usually two income families bringing in about 20-30,000 baht per month, average.

The two income families who are only making 10-15,000 between them rent. Hundreds of developments again where rent is 3-5,000 per month. Not fancy but adequate.

If you guys are not seeing those type of places down there, the Thai work force in residence for what jobs exist there must not be adequate to spark a Thai developers interest. The way the area is growing though, and what that means in terms of work force, you should see an increase in the future. Pete

[sargeant]

splitlid
assuming your figures are correct and i think you are pretty bang on and unless my maths has gone down the alzhiemers black hole i think you should look at the fact that 23000 baht a year 11.5% is a damn site higher return than you would get leaving it in a bank

burgher bang on fast buck and bugger the consequenses will always win out my problem is i am not seeing the developments for low cost housing as i said i will be happy to see them and all the places pointed out to me will get a visit soon

prcct no thais even 2 income families getting 20000- 30000 a month in my street and 2 bed townhouse here is 1.2 million rent 10-12000

guess i hope that is the reason but i am dubious not of what you say or what you have written but i do think there is more to it than just that ( maybe it has something to do with mr T and his shell companies which he is going to court over???) in my experience the thai govt never shows its real colours my fear is collateral damage to nice people.Getting rid of the a@$&holes i applaud i dont want them here either
As for hoiday homes /time share not having an effect on housing costs of course it does i bought my house 20 months ago for 800000 because the landlord wanted to up the rent from 3500 to 6000 my house would now sell for 1.2 million and rents are now 10-12000 a month that is not aimed at thais which caused me to start this thread in the first place

Please note all and sundry i will be very happy to see the tin shacks by the railway dwindle away but at the moment i see them growing

oh yeah i did see and feel the earthquake because 20 minutes earlier we had apower cut and was sat outside i can add a new experience to my life its great living through 4 earthquakes. Never stop learning cos thats when you die

[Burger]

assuming your figures are correct and i think you are pretty bang on and unless my maths has gone down the alzhiemers black hole i think you should look at the fact that 23000 baht a year 11.5% is a damn site higher return than you would get leaving it in a bank

True sargeant it is a decent return, but if you're going to the bother and hassle of developing it is minor compared to the profits to be made from selling farang housing.
Not sure if that's called 'greed' or 'business' ??

Pity there's not more caring people like you in the world sarge.

Burghghghgher