There is some footage here from inside the cabin, plus how it may have happened:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-03/ ... /103281058
Footage shows fireball erupting as Japan Airlines plane collided with Coast Guard aircraft
Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
"NHK has learned that an air traffic controller at Tokyo's Haneda Airport had given permission for a Japan Airlines passenger jet to land on a runway before it collided with a Japan Coast Guard plane on Tuesday evening.
The air controller had also ordered the coast guard aircraft to hold short of the runway. The plane belongs to the Haneda Airport base."
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_07/
The air controller had also ordered the coast guard aircraft to hold short of the runway. The plane belongs to the Haneda Airport base."
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_07/
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-03/ ... /103281962The fire is likely to be seen as a key test case for airplane fuselages made from carbon-composite fibers, such as the A350 and the Boeing 787, instead of conventional aluminum skins.
What caused the Japan Airlines plane collision at Tokyo's Haneda airport and how passengers were evacuated safely as fire erupted
Appears that one passenger took a bag with him. This is one of the biggest problems in this situation. Always a good idea to keep your passport / ID and money on your person.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
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Dannie Boy
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Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
The way I read it, I think that the safety video shows someone taking a bag of the plane, not in this instance where they comment that everyone exited the plane without carrying bags.
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Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
Quite a photo. 
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Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
Yeah, right!Dannie Boy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:38 pm The way I read it, I think that the safety video shows someone taking a bag of the plane, not in this instance where they comment that everyone exited the plane without carrying bags.
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The animated video then shows people jostling for position in the aisle as they're attempting to escape, only to be prevented from leaving by a man struggling to retrieve his bag from the overhead compartment.
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Dannie Boy
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Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
The passengers must have followed instructions to a T. From the video footage that I've viewed, it didn't appear that any of the passengers had carried their bags off the aircraft," he said.Nereus wrote:Yeah, right!Dannie Boy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:38 pm The way I read it, I think that the safety video shows someone taking a bag of the plane, not in this instance where they comment that everyone exited the plane without carrying bags.
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The animated video then shows people jostling for position in the aisle as they're attempting to escape, only to be prevented from leaving by a man struggling to retrieve his bag from the overhead compartment.
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Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
After reading buksida's Japan report, that just sounds so very Japanese.
Meant in a very nice/good way.
Meant in a very nice/good way.
Championship Stoke City 3 - 0 Plymouth Argyle 
Points 48; Position 20
Points 48; Position 20
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
Tokyo air traffic control transcript suggests only one plane had permission to be on runway before deadly Japan Airlines collision
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-04/ ... /103283704
A transcript of communication between air traffic control and two aircraft that collided and burst into flames at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport appears to show that only the larger Japan Airlines (JAL) flight was given permission to use the runway.
The transcript, released by Japan's Transport Ministry, covers about 4 minutes and 25 seconds just before the crash.
It appears to show no clear take-off approval was given to the Coast Guard plane that was destroyed in the collision.
According to the transcript, the Tokyo air traffic control gave the JAL plane permission to land.
"JAL516 RUNWAY 34 cleared to land," it states.
The Japan Airlines pilot repeats: "Cleared to land RUNWAY 34R".
The Coast Guard plane (JA722A) then contacts the control tower and is told to taxi to holding point C5.
It responds within 20 seconds, confirming the instructions: "Taxi to holding point C5 ...Thank you".
That's where communication ends.
Two minutes later, there is a three-second pause, apparently indicating the time of the collision.
more at link................................................
.............................................................................................................
There is a very real fact in how the human brain can, and does, interpret a verbal message. More so in a situation where it may be something that you do regularly, such as the Coast Guard pilot that is based there and does the same thing over and over everyday.
Despite clear instructions, in the situation where he was, the brain was "expecting" to be given clearance to enter ther runway, as that was the next phase in the operations. Believe me, I have seen exactly that happen!
It is not something that only happens to pilots: the same thing can and does occur with a simple thing like driving a car! Your eyes may tell you that the other car is giving way to you, or is turning to the right, when in fact that is not the intention. (even if you leave Thailand out of this!) But, but, but, I thought that you were going to stop!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-04/ ... /103283704
A transcript of communication between air traffic control and two aircraft that collided and burst into flames at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport appears to show that only the larger Japan Airlines (JAL) flight was given permission to use the runway.
The transcript, released by Japan's Transport Ministry, covers about 4 minutes and 25 seconds just before the crash.
It appears to show no clear take-off approval was given to the Coast Guard plane that was destroyed in the collision.
According to the transcript, the Tokyo air traffic control gave the JAL plane permission to land.
"JAL516 RUNWAY 34 cleared to land," it states.
The Japan Airlines pilot repeats: "Cleared to land RUNWAY 34R".
The Coast Guard plane (JA722A) then contacts the control tower and is told to taxi to holding point C5.
It responds within 20 seconds, confirming the instructions: "Taxi to holding point C5 ...Thank you".
That's where communication ends.
Two minutes later, there is a three-second pause, apparently indicating the time of the collision.
more at link................................................
.............................................................................................................
There is a very real fact in how the human brain can, and does, interpret a verbal message. More so in a situation where it may be something that you do regularly, such as the Coast Guard pilot that is based there and does the same thing over and over everyday.
Despite clear instructions, in the situation where he was, the brain was "expecting" to be given clearance to enter ther runway, as that was the next phase in the operations. Believe me, I have seen exactly that happen!
It is not something that only happens to pilots: the same thing can and does occur with a simple thing like driving a car! Your eyes may tell you that the other car is giving way to you, or is turning to the right, when in fact that is not the intention. (even if you leave Thailand out of this!) But, but, but, I thought that you were going to stop!
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
Apparently, the stop bar lights on the taxi way leading to the runway had been out of action for a few days which might also be a factor in this accident:
https://airwaysmag.com/runway-incursion ... itigation/
https://airwaysmag.com/runway-incursion ... itigation/
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
The folllowing gives some insight into how the Airbus fire propagated, and some figures about the carbon fibre construction:
Japan plane crash: why the jet didn’t explode on impact – explainer
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... 977aa&ei=8
After all 379 passengers and crew on a Japan Airlines jet that crashed into another plane at a Tokyo airport escaped the burning aircraft, experts have examined how they managed to get out mostly unharmed, and said that low fuel levels likely prevented an explosion.
At about 5:45pm on Tuesday evening, JAL flight 516 – an Airbus A350-900 that departed the northern city of Sapporo about an hour and a half earlier – collided with a coast guard plane when landing at Haneda airport, killing five of the six onboard the smaller Dash 8 aircraft.
The plane was engulfed by fire but critically, didn’t explode on impact. Fire did however quickly spread throughout the plane, and it took authorities until 8:30pm, almost three hours after the initial impact, to extinguish the aircraft.
Related: Miracle at Haneda: how cabin crew pulled off great escape from Japan plane fire
The plane featured carbon fibre composites which burn more easily, but experts downplay the role its materials played, while noting the way in which the A350 burned is a relatively new phenomenon in aviation.
Dr Sonya Brown, a senior lecturer in aerospace design at the University of New South Wales’ school of mechanical and manufacturing engineering, said that while the first generation of passenger jets in the 20th century were made largely from metal, aviation engineers have been increasing the proportion of carbon fibre composite materials over time as a way to reduce weight and increase efficiency.
Approximately 50% of the A350 is made from carbon fibre reinforced polymers, which Brown said is among the highest proportion ever produced. Wings, as well as the fuselage, are some of the largest structures on the plane made from the composites. Aluminium, steel and titanium are still relied upon, but to a lesser degree.
“Obviously the materials do impact the fire performance, and while we don’t know the specifics of the resins used in the plane in this incident, they will lose their structural capability, their sense of thickness, at a lower temperature than aluminium,” Brown said.
Japan Airlines took delivery of the A350 in November 2021, Airbus said in a statement, as it announced it was sending a team of specialists to Japan to assist with investigations of the incident.
Brown said the footage suggested the initial flame was on the aircraft’s left wing, and was so significant that a metal body plane would have also caught fire.
“Carbon fibre composites might start to lose some of their stiffness at about 200 degrees, while aluminium will melt at about 700 degrees, but the fire we saw on that fuselage will have had temperatures above 1000 degrees Celsius,” she said.
“It will have had some impact on the way it burns because the resins combust at lower temperatures, and while it will change the performance of the fire, the carbon fibre composites weren’t going to change the overall outcome of this.”
Brown noted the fire was contained in the left wing – likely thanks to firewalls made of materials which become combustible at much higher temperatures to prevent flames spreading to areas such as engines and fuel tanks – long enough for everyone on board to evacuate.
While crews must be trained to evacuate all passengers in 90 seconds, this would have likely taken longer due to the inability to use the doors above the wings.
Once those on board had fled, the intensity of the flames was largely dictated by the what the plane was carrying – and what it wasn’t.
“I think we see this with a lot of fires, it takes a very long time to come under control, it’s not just the materials of the planes, there’s batteries, electrical systems, other luggage and freight which could have anything in them, which could also burn,” Brown said.
The relatively low amount of jet fuel the plane was likely carrying at landing could have minimised the intensity of the fire and prevented a potential explosion, Brown said.
Neil Hansford, a industry consultant at Strategic Aviation Solutions, said commercial aircraft tend to operate with just the fuel needed for a trip, plus 10% as a buffer, in order to maximise fuel efficiency.
“It’s an industry rule that you always carry the trip fuel, plus 10%, plus enough to take you to the alternate airport you provided in your flight plan, which would have likely been (Tokyo’s) Narita in this case,” Hansford said.
Hansford said that while a plane’s exterior, regardless of its construction materials, would burn out over time in the event of the fire that occurred at Haneda, aircraft interiors are designed to prevent flames spreading for as long as possible to allow for safe evacuation.
“Everything on the interior of the aircraft is designed to mitigate burning, the seats are made of fireblock material,” he said.
Japan plane crash: why the jet didn’t explode on impact – explainer
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... 977aa&ei=8
After all 379 passengers and crew on a Japan Airlines jet that crashed into another plane at a Tokyo airport escaped the burning aircraft, experts have examined how they managed to get out mostly unharmed, and said that low fuel levels likely prevented an explosion.
At about 5:45pm on Tuesday evening, JAL flight 516 – an Airbus A350-900 that departed the northern city of Sapporo about an hour and a half earlier – collided with a coast guard plane when landing at Haneda airport, killing five of the six onboard the smaller Dash 8 aircraft.
The plane was engulfed by fire but critically, didn’t explode on impact. Fire did however quickly spread throughout the plane, and it took authorities until 8:30pm, almost three hours after the initial impact, to extinguish the aircraft.
Related: Miracle at Haneda: how cabin crew pulled off great escape from Japan plane fire
The plane featured carbon fibre composites which burn more easily, but experts downplay the role its materials played, while noting the way in which the A350 burned is a relatively new phenomenon in aviation.
Dr Sonya Brown, a senior lecturer in aerospace design at the University of New South Wales’ school of mechanical and manufacturing engineering, said that while the first generation of passenger jets in the 20th century were made largely from metal, aviation engineers have been increasing the proportion of carbon fibre composite materials over time as a way to reduce weight and increase efficiency.
Approximately 50% of the A350 is made from carbon fibre reinforced polymers, which Brown said is among the highest proportion ever produced. Wings, as well as the fuselage, are some of the largest structures on the plane made from the composites. Aluminium, steel and titanium are still relied upon, but to a lesser degree.
“Obviously the materials do impact the fire performance, and while we don’t know the specifics of the resins used in the plane in this incident, they will lose their structural capability, their sense of thickness, at a lower temperature than aluminium,” Brown said.
Japan Airlines took delivery of the A350 in November 2021, Airbus said in a statement, as it announced it was sending a team of specialists to Japan to assist with investigations of the incident.
Brown said the footage suggested the initial flame was on the aircraft’s left wing, and was so significant that a metal body plane would have also caught fire.
“Carbon fibre composites might start to lose some of their stiffness at about 200 degrees, while aluminium will melt at about 700 degrees, but the fire we saw on that fuselage will have had temperatures above 1000 degrees Celsius,” she said.
“It will have had some impact on the way it burns because the resins combust at lower temperatures, and while it will change the performance of the fire, the carbon fibre composites weren’t going to change the overall outcome of this.”
Brown noted the fire was contained in the left wing – likely thanks to firewalls made of materials which become combustible at much higher temperatures to prevent flames spreading to areas such as engines and fuel tanks – long enough for everyone on board to evacuate.
While crews must be trained to evacuate all passengers in 90 seconds, this would have likely taken longer due to the inability to use the doors above the wings.
Once those on board had fled, the intensity of the flames was largely dictated by the what the plane was carrying – and what it wasn’t.
“I think we see this with a lot of fires, it takes a very long time to come under control, it’s not just the materials of the planes, there’s batteries, electrical systems, other luggage and freight which could have anything in them, which could also burn,” Brown said.
The relatively low amount of jet fuel the plane was likely carrying at landing could have minimised the intensity of the fire and prevented a potential explosion, Brown said.
Neil Hansford, a industry consultant at Strategic Aviation Solutions, said commercial aircraft tend to operate with just the fuel needed for a trip, plus 10% as a buffer, in order to maximise fuel efficiency.
“It’s an industry rule that you always carry the trip fuel, plus 10%, plus enough to take you to the alternate airport you provided in your flight plan, which would have likely been (Tokyo’s) Narita in this case,” Hansford said.
Hansford said that while a plane’s exterior, regardless of its construction materials, would burn out over time in the event of the fire that occurred at Haneda, aircraft interiors are designed to prevent flames spreading for as long as possible to allow for safe evacuation.
“Everything on the interior of the aircraft is designed to mitigate burning, the seats are made of fireblock material,” he said.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
No shit, Sherlock!
https://www.9news.com.au/world/japan-pl ... 4081fe0c0d
Former Australian air traffic controller Michelle Robson said from the preliminary report the coast guard aircraft wasn't cleared to enter the runway before the fateful crash occurred.
"Obviously this is not an official transcript, but it appears it was told to hold short of the runway at the entry point," she said.
"So they do have additional safeguards which is the surface movement radar, which would have shown the aircraft moving."
"It would make it harder for the controller to see on their radar if they don't have a radar," Robson said.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/japan-pl ... 4081fe0c0d
Former Australian air traffic controller Michelle Robson said from the preliminary report the coast guard aircraft wasn't cleared to enter the runway before the fateful crash occurred.
"Obviously this is not an official transcript, but it appears it was told to hold short of the runway at the entry point," she said.
"So they do have additional safeguards which is the surface movement radar, which would have shown the aircraft moving."
"It would make it harder for the controller to see on their radar if they don't have a radar," Robson said.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Re: Japan Airlines plane in flames on the runway at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
A very long article which covers a lot that has already been posted, so I just add the following relevant part:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-06/ ... /103288712
The Japan Airlines plane collision was 20 minutes of horror, but the industry will learn invaluable lessons
As investigators gather information on the fiery collision of a Japan Airlines flight and Coast Guard plane at Tokyo's Haneda airport this week, a picture is starting to emerge of what went wrong.
How quick-thinking cabin crew evacuated 367 passengers in 20 minutes
Videos taken by passengers onboard the plane show a scene of unfolding horror.
As smoke fills the cabin, an orange glow can be seen outside the windows.
"Please get me out of here!" one woman says.
"Please, why don't you just open [the doors]," a child rather politely inquires.
Despite the potential for mass panic, the flight attendants can be heard urging everyone to "please cooperate" and evacuate the plane without stopping to collect their carry-on luggage.
They had everyone down the inflatable slides and off the plane within 18 minutes of the collision.
Witnesses say just 10 minutes after the last person left the craft, it was engulfed in flames.
While the escape from JA516 took much longer than 90 seconds, it appears that the flight crew had to spend time assessing which exits on the plane were safest to use.
One of the exits was engulfed in flames, so the passengers only had three means of escape instead of four.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-06/ ... /103288712
The Japan Airlines plane collision was 20 minutes of horror, but the industry will learn invaluable lessons
As investigators gather information on the fiery collision of a Japan Airlines flight and Coast Guard plane at Tokyo's Haneda airport this week, a picture is starting to emerge of what went wrong.
How quick-thinking cabin crew evacuated 367 passengers in 20 minutes
Videos taken by passengers onboard the plane show a scene of unfolding horror.
As smoke fills the cabin, an orange glow can be seen outside the windows.
"Please get me out of here!" one woman says.
"Please, why don't you just open [the doors]," a child rather politely inquires.
Despite the potential for mass panic, the flight attendants can be heard urging everyone to "please cooperate" and evacuate the plane without stopping to collect their carry-on luggage.
They had everyone down the inflatable slides and off the plane within 18 minutes of the collision.
Witnesses say just 10 minutes after the last person left the craft, it was engulfed in flames.
While the escape from JA516 took much longer than 90 seconds, it appears that the flight crew had to spend time assessing which exits on the plane were safest to use.
One of the exits was engulfed in flames, so the passengers only had three means of escape instead of four.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!