China offers two decommissioned Song-class submarines to Royal Thai Navy
China has offered two used Song-class submarines to the Royal Thai Navy (RTN), but they need to be reconditioned before they can become operable, according to the RTN.
https://www.thaipbsworld.com/china-offe ... thai-navy/
Thai Navy to buy Chinese submarines
Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
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Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
China offers Navy two subs as purchase deal hits snag
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... -hits-snag
Navy chief Adm Somprasong Nilsamai on Sunday confirmed that China made an informal offer to provide the Thai navy with two used submarines to train staff while waiting for the first of its order of Chinese-made submarines to be delivered.
Adm Somprasong, however, declined to comment further on the issue.
A source in the navy told the Bangkok Post that the offer was made because China has encountered problems in attempting to purchase a submarine engine from MTU in Germany for the S26T Yuan-class submarine being assembled in Wuhan for the Thai navy.
Aside from the good relations between Thailand and China, the secondhand submarine offer was made partly because the German supplier of submarine engines refused to sell one to China after learning that it would use the engine for assembling a new submarine for sale to another country.
As negotiations continue, the delivery, previously scheduled for September next year, may have to be postponed until April 2024.
Deputy Prime Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan initiated the purchase when he was defence minister, although when asked about the latest development on Sunday, would not disclose any more details, other than to remark that "I am hoping for good news".
Meanwhile, Adm Tharoengsak Sirisawat, navy chief of staff, will set up a panel to consider the viability of taking on the vessels' maintenance costs.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... -hits-snag
Navy chief Adm Somprasong Nilsamai on Sunday confirmed that China made an informal offer to provide the Thai navy with two used submarines to train staff while waiting for the first of its order of Chinese-made submarines to be delivered.
Adm Somprasong, however, declined to comment further on the issue.
A source in the navy told the Bangkok Post that the offer was made because China has encountered problems in attempting to purchase a submarine engine from MTU in Germany for the S26T Yuan-class submarine being assembled in Wuhan for the Thai navy.
Aside from the good relations between Thailand and China, the secondhand submarine offer was made partly because the German supplier of submarine engines refused to sell one to China after learning that it would use the engine for assembling a new submarine for sale to another country.
As negotiations continue, the delivery, previously scheduled for September next year, may have to be postponed until April 2024.
Deputy Prime Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan initiated the purchase when he was defence minister, although when asked about the latest development on Sunday, would not disclose any more details, other than to remark that "I am hoping for good news".
Meanwhile, Adm Tharoengsak Sirisawat, navy chief of staff, will set up a panel to consider the viability of taking on the vessels' maintenance costs.
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handdrummer
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Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
The country is having economic problems and they're trying to figure out how to pay for a submarine. Makes perfect sense.Nereus wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:08 pm China offers Navy two subs as purchase deal hits snag
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... -hits-snag
Navy chief Adm Somprasong Nilsamai on Sunday confirmed that China made an informal offer to provide the Thai navy with two used submarines to train staff while waiting for the first of its order of Chinese-made submarines to be delivered.
Adm Somprasong, however, declined to comment further on the issue.
A source in the navy told the Bangkok Post that the offer was made because China has encountered problems in attempting to purchase a submarine engine from MTU in Germany for the S26T Yuan-class submarine being assembled in Wuhan for the Thai navy.
Aside from the good relations between Thailand and China, the secondhand submarine offer was made partly because the German supplier of submarine engines refused to sell one to China after learning that it would use the engine for assembling a new submarine for sale to another country.
As negotiations continue, the delivery, previously scheduled for September next year, may have to be postponed until April 2024.
Deputy Prime Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan initiated the purchase when he was defence minister, although when asked about the latest development on Sunday, would not disclose any more details, other than to remark that "I am hoping for good news".
Meanwhile, Adm Tharoengsak Sirisawat, navy chief of staff, will set up a panel to consider the viability of taking on the vessels' maintenance costs.
Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
Navy buying sub 'with no engines'
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... no-engines
A Pheu Thai Party MP claims there are irregularities in the navy's controversial submarine procurement programme, adding the military branch is being duped into buying vessels with no engines.
Yutthapong Charasathian, deputy Pheu Thai Party leader and MP for Maha Sarakham, yesterday during a weekly press briefing at party headquarters took aim at the navy's plan to buy three submarines from China.
The first submarine was already bought for 13.5 billion baht and is due for delivery next year.
However, the procurement of two other submarines, valued at 22.5 billion baht, is still in limbo and could be put on hold due to financial constraints caused by the Covid-19 pandemic, according to a source in the navy.
Mr Yutthapong claimed China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), which signed the submarine contract with the navy, does not represent the Chinese government.
The CSOC is a private company, which means the submarine contract that the navy signed with the CSOC was not a government-to-government deal, he said.
Mr Yutthapong said there is also a project to construct a submarine base in two phases worth about 1.85 billion baht.
Mr Yutthapong also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.
Did they dupe the government and the navy?" he said.
He also claimed that the first submarine, due for delivery, has no engines because China cannot manufacture diesel engines for submarines and will have to buy them from Germany.
Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Yutthapong alleged.
He said he had received information that the CSOC will replace Germany's engine with a Chinese-made engine for the submarine instead.
Mr Yutthapong said he will bring the matter to the attention of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, and ask him to stop any move to replace the engine type stipulated in the contract.
The change could lead to a glitch in the submarine, putting naval officers at risk, Mr Yutthapong said.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... no-engines
A Pheu Thai Party MP claims there are irregularities in the navy's controversial submarine procurement programme, adding the military branch is being duped into buying vessels with no engines.
Yutthapong Charasathian, deputy Pheu Thai Party leader and MP for Maha Sarakham, yesterday during a weekly press briefing at party headquarters took aim at the navy's plan to buy three submarines from China.
The first submarine was already bought for 13.5 billion baht and is due for delivery next year.
However, the procurement of two other submarines, valued at 22.5 billion baht, is still in limbo and could be put on hold due to financial constraints caused by the Covid-19 pandemic, according to a source in the navy.
Mr Yutthapong claimed China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), which signed the submarine contract with the navy, does not represent the Chinese government.
The CSOC is a private company, which means the submarine contract that the navy signed with the CSOC was not a government-to-government deal, he said.
Mr Yutthapong said there is also a project to construct a submarine base in two phases worth about 1.85 billion baht.
Mr Yutthapong also said the company sent four personnel to Thailand to work on the submarine base construction project, but it turned out they applied for work permits to teach the Chinese language.
Did they dupe the government and the navy?" he said.
He also claimed that the first submarine, due for delivery, has no engines because China cannot manufacture diesel engines for submarines and will have to buy them from Germany.
Under the CSOC contract, the submarine must be powered by engines supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company refused to sell the engine to China, Mr Yutthapong alleged.
He said he had received information that the CSOC will replace Germany's engine with a Chinese-made engine for the submarine instead.
Mr Yutthapong said he will bring the matter to the attention of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, and ask him to stop any move to replace the engine type stipulated in the contract.
The change could lead to a glitch in the submarine, putting naval officers at risk, Mr Yutthapong said.
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handdrummer
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Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
This ties in with the posts on why do Thais make things so difficult.
The inability to think things through is staggering. Or maybe I should say the inability to think, full stop.
The inability to think things through is staggering. Or maybe I should say the inability to think, full stop.
Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
At that level they think very hard. Mostly about the kickbacks.
Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
This has turned into Monty Python material.
Who did you buy the subs from? The Chinese Gov., or, we got mixed up and bought them from the shop next store with the pretty banner hanging outside.
When will they be ready? The first one soon, but, but, but...they don't have engines.
How will we operate them then? Engines coming later but not the good German ones, some Chinese substitutes we don't know anything about.
How about the Chinese engineers to help build the sub base? They arrived, but decided to be language teachers instead.
Who did you buy the subs from? The Chinese Gov., or, we got mixed up and bought them from the shop next store with the pretty banner hanging outside.
When will they be ready? The first one soon, but, but, but...they don't have engines.
How will we operate them then? Engines coming later but not the good German ones, some Chinese substitutes we don't know anything about.
How about the Chinese engineers to help build the sub base? They arrived, but decided to be language teachers instead.
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Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
Actually, the best scenario would be to have them without engines. They will probably still manage to sink them, but alongside the new dock it will not matter!
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
Subs deal at risk: PM
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... at-risk-pm
German company refuses to sell diesel engines
A huge government-to-government submarine procurement deal faces the axe, if China is unable to fit the engines specified in the purchase agreement, warned Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha on Monday.
He was answering reporters' questions following reports that a German company had refused to supply MTU396 diesel engines to China to be fitted into the S26T Yuan-class submarine being built for the Royal Thai Navy (RTN).
Gen Prayut, also defence minister, said he had instructed the navy to do its best to get the deal over the line, but if China could not fulfil the agreement, the contract would have to be scrapped.
Asked if he was concerned the issue would be brought up in the planned no-confidence debate, Gen Prayut said was he prepared as he had justified the purchase already several times in response to questions.
"What do we do with a submarine with no engines? Why should we purchase it? If the agreement can't be fulfilled, we have to figure out what to do. Isn't that how we solve a problem?" he replied.
When asked if the government can terminate the contract, he said the matter will be considered by authorities concerned and in line with the procurement process and the prime minister need not intervene at every stage.
He insisted that any cancellation will not affect Thai-Chinese relations and both sides have been working closely to resolve the issue.
On Saturday navy commander Adm Somprasong Nilsamai said no changes had been made to the submarine deal and insisted China would have to comply with the contract as signed.
Under the terms of the deal, the submarine's engines were to be supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company were barred from making the sale due to an embargo as they are designated a military/defence item.
According to navy spokesman Vice Adm Pokkrong Monthatphalin, the navy would hold talks with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC) this month to resolve the problem even though it stands by the purchase-agreement stipulation.
It is reported that CSOC has asked the navy to alter the contract to replace the German engines with Chinese ones such as the MWM 620 which are of the same standard, but the navy is standing by the original contract.
..........................................................................................................
I would venture to say that there is more to this than is being published!
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... at-risk-pm
German company refuses to sell diesel engines
A huge government-to-government submarine procurement deal faces the axe, if China is unable to fit the engines specified in the purchase agreement, warned Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha on Monday.
He was answering reporters' questions following reports that a German company had refused to supply MTU396 diesel engines to China to be fitted into the S26T Yuan-class submarine being built for the Royal Thai Navy (RTN).
Gen Prayut, also defence minister, said he had instructed the navy to do its best to get the deal over the line, but if China could not fulfil the agreement, the contract would have to be scrapped.
Asked if he was concerned the issue would be brought up in the planned no-confidence debate, Gen Prayut said was he prepared as he had justified the purchase already several times in response to questions.
"What do we do with a submarine with no engines? Why should we purchase it? If the agreement can't be fulfilled, we have to figure out what to do. Isn't that how we solve a problem?" he replied.
When asked if the government can terminate the contract, he said the matter will be considered by authorities concerned and in line with the procurement process and the prime minister need not intervene at every stage.
He insisted that any cancellation will not affect Thai-Chinese relations and both sides have been working closely to resolve the issue.
On Saturday navy commander Adm Somprasong Nilsamai said no changes had been made to the submarine deal and insisted China would have to comply with the contract as signed.
Under the terms of the deal, the submarine's engines were to be supplied by Germany's MTU, but the company were barred from making the sale due to an embargo as they are designated a military/defence item.
According to navy spokesman Vice Adm Pokkrong Monthatphalin, the navy would hold talks with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC) this month to resolve the problem even though it stands by the purchase-agreement stipulation.
It is reported that CSOC has asked the navy to alter the contract to replace the German engines with Chinese ones such as the MWM 620 which are of the same standard, but the navy is standing by the original contract.
..........................................................................................................
I would venture to say that there is more to this than is being published!
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
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handdrummer
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Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
They'll find something else on which to waste the money. Perish the thought that the govt. should help the citizens.
Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
International media now taking the piss out of this fiasco ...
China Is Selling Thailand a Submarine. Problem Is, No Engines.
The submarine that China is building for Thailand is missing something: engines.
The deal calls for China to equip the submarine with diesel engines made by Germany’s MTU Friedrichshafen GmbH, according to a Thai navy spokesman. But Germany is barring export of the engines to China, strictly applying a European Union arms embargo imposed in 1989, after Chinese authorities used deadly force against protesters in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-s ... 1647250202
China Is Selling Thailand a Submarine. Problem Is, No Engines.
The submarine that China is building for Thailand is missing something: engines.
The deal calls for China to equip the submarine with diesel engines made by Germany’s MTU Friedrichshafen GmbH, according to a Thai navy spokesman. But Germany is barring export of the engines to China, strictly applying a European Union arms embargo imposed in 1989, after Chinese authorities used deadly force against protesters in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-s ... 1647250202
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Re: Navy presses for 2nd Chinese sub
Well, at least the Thai Navy will be able to sell their expertise to larger navies, after having gone through the drills in salvaging one
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handdrummer
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Re: Thai Navy to buy Chinese submarines
Thailand could buy the engines from Germany. The only problem would be no one would know how to install them. Well, of course, that's not the only problem but you have to start somewhere.
Re: Thai Navy to buy Chinese submarines
Larger ships are usually built around the engine. Will be interesting to see how they get around this requirement and how it is hidden from view. Take delivery of an engineless submarine shell?
After all submarines are a vital link to the defense of Thailand.
After all submarines are a vital link to the defense of Thailand.
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handdrummer
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Re: Thai Navy to buy Chinese submarines
I've heard, from reliable sources, that Kenya is planning to attack Thailand by sea before the subs are delivered. Get your bows and arrows ready to defend the homeland.brianks wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:57 am Larger ships are usually built around the engine. Will be interesting to see how they get around this requirement and how it is hidden from view. Take delivery of an engineless submarine shell?
After all submarines are a vital link to the defense of Thailand.