Why do many expats not bother to learn to read?

[handdrummer]

P.S. One book I can recommend to help you start learning Thai is Teach Yourself Thai by David Smyth (ISBN:0340590416)

That would be ok for sentence structure, phrases, etc. but you'll never learn to speak Thai from a book. Recordings are necessary. You have to hear the language spoken and be able to reproduce it, over and over and over. The best way would be to listen, and record yourself speaking, then compare it with the original.

[handdrummer]

While we always go on about how difficult it is to learn Thai, we should also sometimes have sympathy for Thais who say the same thing about English, which is probably the most difficult language in the world to learn from scratch.
If you can get your head around the "tonal" side if the Thai language, I would imaging that it is a very easy language to learn because it is a very simple language.

A few examples:


It is really very hot today - lon maak
I have to go fetch my kids from school - lap luk
Damn, these bloody mossies keep biting me - Ooooiiii yung kat
I am eating my breakfast - kin khao
I am eating my lunch - kin khao
I am eating my dinner - kin khao


What does get to me sometimes, is when you ask for something in Thai and you do it flawlessly, and you are greeted with a blank stare. However, you can usually get the message across simply by singing the same question.

Ordering a packet Play Off (red) cigarettes at 7/11

Sawadee kap. Buri Play Off deang kap - The blank stare and a sheepish smile, so time to try again......
Ow, bulleeeeeeee Play Off deangggggggggg kap - Perfect, now I can go outside and have a cigarette.

How could a language with 40+ consonants and 20+ vowels be considered a simple language? I won't even get into the written language with it's characters for numbers.

[Big Boy]

I won't even get into the written language with it's characters for numbers.

Please do, it's what the thread is about.

[oakdale160]

Talking of them not expecting Thai from a western face. A friend who is fluent in Japanese went into a small store in Japan, the owner was facing away from her fixing something on a shelf. She said what she wanted and they conversed about it in Japanese. Then he turned around, looked at her and said--No speak English.

[HHTel]

How could a language with 40+ consonants and 20+ vowels be considered a simple language? I won't even get into the written language with it's characters for numbers.

If you compare it with English, Thai has 5 tones, whereas English has dozens of tones although used differently. English has 5 vowels but they equate to some 20 vowel sounds with more if you include dialectical differences. English has around 24 consonant sounds.

Believe me, when reading Thai, it's difficult to get it wrong as every character and associated tones have a specific sound and meaning. For a non-English speaker, the language must be a nightmare. Just think of the 'ough' for example and there are many more.

So, yes, Thai is a simpler language than English.

[handdrummer]

How could a language with 40+ consonants and 20+ vowels be considered a simple language? I won't even get into the written language with it's characters for numbers.

If you compare it with English, Thai has 5 tones, whereas English has dozens of tones although used differently. English has 5 vowels but they equate to some 20 vowel sounds with more if you include dialectical differences. English has around 24 consonant sounds.

Believe me, when reading Thai, it's difficult to get it wrong as every character and associated tones have a specific sound and meaning. For a non-English speaker, the language must be a nightmare. Just think of the 'ough' for example and there are many more.

So, yes, Thai is a simpler language than English.

In English the tone doesn't change the meaning. Inflection can change the meaning, hence irony. In Thai the same word with 5 different tones produces 5 different unrelated meanings, that doesn't occur in English. I'm not debating the relative difficulties of learning to speak Thai compared to English, some of which is due to physical characteristics like a shorter Asian tongue that makes pronouncing the letter L difficult. I'm just pointing out that Thai is a difficult to learn language. Chinese is probably just as difficult maybe more so.

[Nereus]

Maybe this should be in Foo? Either way, it is true:
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
ONLY THE BRITISH COULD HAVE INVENTED THIS LANGUAGE(not strictly correct)

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes,
> But the plural of ox becomes oxen, not, oxes.
> One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,
> Yet the plural of moose should never be meese..
> You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
> Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
> Then shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
> If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
> And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
> If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
> Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three would be those,
> Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
> And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.
> We speak of a brother and also of brethren,
> But though we say mother, we never say methren.
> Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
> But imagine the feminine: she, shis and shim!

Let's face it - English is a crazy language.
> There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger;
> neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
> English muffins weren't invented in England ..
> We take English for granted, but if we explore its paradoxes,
> we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square,
> and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing,
> grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?
> Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend.
> If you have a bunch of odds and ends
> and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught?
> If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
> Sometimes I think all the folks who grew up speaking English
> should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?
> We ship by truck but send cargo by ship.
> We have noses that run and feet that smell.
> We park in a driveway and drive in a parkway.
> And how can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same,
> while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

> You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language
> in which your house can burn up as it burns down,
> in which you fill in a form by filling it out,
> and in which an alarm goes off by going on.
> If Father is Pop, how come Mother's not Mop?

Finally: If people from Poland are called Poles, then should people from Holland be Holes?

[HHTel]

like a shorter Asian tongue that makes pronouncing the letter L difficult.

You sure about that? Thais have no problem producing the letter L. In fact they replace the letter R with L very often. The reason they have difficulty with R is because there is no equivalent sound in Thai. Their R is a rrrrollling R quite unlike the pronunciation we use.

They also have problems with 'th' and 'sh' for the same reason. In the west the French have difficulty with 'th' as it doesn't appear in their vocabulary in the same way.

The fact is that all people are physically capable of producing all language sounds but will find it harder if that sound does not appear in their own language.

We find it strange to start a word with 'ng' but with practice it's no problem.

[HHTel]

Great 'poem' Nereus. I think I read that many years ago. Thanks for reminding me of it.
Thinks......'Who shall I forward it to'.

[Chazz14]

Re: handrummer's reply - yes, I agree it's always best to learn to speak Thai face to face with a Thai.

David Smyth's book taught me how to write Thai and read basic everyday words/signs etc.

[joelle]

Maybe this should be in Foo? Either way, it is true:
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
ONLY THE BRITISH COULD HAVE INVENTED THIS LANGUAGE(not strictly correct)

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes,
> But the plural of ox becomes oxen, not, oxes.
> One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,
> Yet the plural of moose should never be meese..
> You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
> Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
> Then shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
> If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
> And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
> If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
> Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three would be those,
> Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
> And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.
> We speak of a brother and also of brethren,
> But though we say mother, we never say methren.
> Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
> But imagine the feminine: she, shis and shim!

Let's face it - English is a crazy language.
> There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger;
> neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
> English muffins weren't invented in England ..
> We take English for granted, but if we explore its paradoxes,
> we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square,
> and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing,
> grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?
> Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend.
> If you have a bunch of odds and ends
> and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught?
> If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
> Sometimes I think all the folks who grew up speaking English
> should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?
> We ship by truck but send cargo by ship.
> We have noses that run and feet that smell.
> We park in a driveway and drive in a parkway.
> And how can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same,
> while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

> You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language
> in which your house can burn up as it burns down,
> in which you fill in a form by filling it out,
> and in which an alarm goes off by going on.
> If Father is Pop, how come Mother's not Mop?

Finally: If people from Poland are called Poles, then should people from Holland be Holes?

brilliant thanks for sharing

[handdrummer]

like a shorter Asian tongue that makes pronouncing the letter L difficult.

You sure about that? Thais have no problem producing the letter L. In fact they replace the letter R with L very often. The reason they have difficulty with R is because there is no equivalent sound in Thai. Their R is a rrrrollling R quite unlike the pronunciation we use.

They also have problems with 'th' and 'sh' for the same reason. In the west the French have difficulty with 'th' as it doesn't appear in their vocabulary in the same way.

The fact is that all people are physically capable of producing all language sounds but will find it harder if that sound does not appear in their own language.

We find it strange to start a word with 'ng' but with practice it's no problem.

I hear many Thais pronouncing cold as code, old as ode, etc. To pronounce L you have to be able to touch the inside of your upper teeth, which requires curling the tip of your tongue backwards. Hard to do with a short tongue. Admittedly, I've not measured and Thai tongues.

[HHTel]

You're talking about an L embedded in a word next to another consonant. The same happens with R when embedded in the same way. When at the beginning of a word or surrounded by two vowels there's no problem with pronouncing the L. As I've said, they do have a problem with R. Hot = Lorn (rorn), Alee (My wife's name - Aree), School = Long Lian (Rong Rian) and of course many others. We learn from them Sawatdee kap which should be krap.

Incidentally, there is no evidence that an Asian tongue is any different from any other tongue.

Just asked my wife about the co(l)d etc. because she pronounces it perfectly. She told me that when you first listen to someone speaking English, you don't initially hear the 'embedded' L so don't realise you're are mispronouncing it.

[Takiap]

How could a language with 40+ consonants and 20+ vowels be considered a simple language? I won't even get into the written language with it's characters for numbers.

If you compare it with English, Thai has 5 tones, whereas English has dozens of tones although used differently. English has 5 vowels but they equate to some 20 vowel sounds with more if you include dialectical differences. English has around 24 consonant sounds.

Believe me, when reading Thai, it's difficult to get it wrong as every character and associated tones have a specific sound and meaning. For a non-English speaker, the language must be a nightmare. Just think of the 'ough' for example and there are many more.

So, yes, Thai is a simpler language than English.

In English the tone doesn't change the meaning. Inflection can change the meaning, hence irony. In Thai the same word with 5 different tones produces 5 different unrelated meanings, that doesn't occur in English. I'm not debating the relative difficulties of learning to speak Thai compared to English, some of which is due to physical characteristics like a shorter Asian tongue that makes pronouncing the letter L difficult. I'm just pointing out that Thai is a difficult to learn language. Chinese is probably just as difficult maybe more so.

I'm not quite sure where you got that one from. Thais have no difficulty pronouncing "L" and if you listen to them speak, most of them use L instead of R when the are talking. For example, Roi becomes Loi, and Buri becomes Bully. Even an orange becomes an olange. Next time a Thai person asks what your name is, introduce yourself as Rick Rucy, and wait for them to repeat it, and then tell them you would love to.

I have honestly never met a Thai who struggled with their L. However, when it comes to pronouncing "th" then it is a very different matter altogether.

[Dannie Boy]

It’s strange - my wife like most Thais struggles with the letter r and invariable substitutes it for an l, but there are a couple of words were she gets it reversed, e.g. this morning she was trying to tell me that there was some “grass” outside our house and I thought yes I know there is, but what she meant was that there was some “glass” on the road.