Has Domestic Cup Football had its Day?

[Big Boy]

redzonerocker wrote:

chelsea had cech,lampard, drogba & cashley cole missing but cudicini,ballack, bridge & anelka are hardly second rate deputies!!

Lets see how many of these players are missing from the Champions League quarter final (if they are fit). In reality, Chelsea probably stand a much better chance of winning the FA Cup, but they ain't really interested in the domestic scene - it's just a channel to Europe. As they are probably going to finish in the top 4, there's no incentive to do well elsewhere on the domestic scene.

Wanderlust wrote:

I actually think the old semis at neutral grounds had a much better atmosphere as well, simply because not only was there the incentive of getting to the Cup Final but as you say, getting to play at Wembley.

So Wembley is not neutral? I remember a long, long time ago (when dinosaurs still walked the Earth) Plymouth reached the semi-finals. The match was played at Villa Park, and it was a great day. However, the immense struggle to get a ticket, the thousands of fans who couldn't actually get to the match and the disappointment of not getting to Wembley put a damper on that occasion. These days trips to Wembley are common place for a variety of competitions, and the excitement has gone out of it. So why not let more fans enjoy their team's moment of glory, and let the team benefit from a larger payout as well?

JimmyGreaves wrote:

I have to say this is the best FA Cup for decades. I am a Liverpool fan but that doesn't stop me from saluting the lower division teams that have thoroughly deserved to reach the hallowed Wembley turf this year.

The best FA Cup for who? I fully agree that teams like Barnsley have excelled, and nobody can change the history books - they have beaten the mighty Liverpool and Chelsea on the way. Not wanting to take anything away from Barnsley (they have done really well, and I wish my team Plymouth had done the same), but they were understrength teams that they beat. 2 reasons:

1. The Premiership managers totally underestimated the strength that exists in the lower leagues.

2. The same managers are paid more for European results, they just don't want to risk too many injuries/bookings in domestic competition.

The 'top 4' (and a few others) are making a complete mockery of the domestic game

[redzonerocker]

The 'top 4' (and a few others) are making a complete mockery of the domestic game

can't agree with that bb,
the stats suggest otherwise,
the last 12 years have been dominated by the 'big 4' & since 1989 only spurs in (91) & everton in (95) have won it outside of the 'big 4'.

since 1989 arsenal & man utd have won it 6 times each, liverpool 4 & chelsea 3 times. thats 19 times out of 21 years.
that's hardly making a mockery of the fa cup.

the only time it was made a mockery of, was in 1999/2000 season when man utd withdrew to play in a money orientated world trophy tournament.

i personally don't think the semi's should be played at wembley, it does devalue the final to a degree, there are plenty of other suitable venues.

& as i post this cardiff have just gone 0-2 up at middlesboro

[Wanderlust]

Wanderlust wrote:

I actually think the old semis at neutral grounds had a much better atmosphere as well, simply because not only was there the incentive of getting to the Cup Final but as you say, getting to play at Wembley.

So Wembley is not neutral? I remember a long, long time ago (when dinosaurs still walked the Earth) Plymouth reached the semi-finals. The match was played at Villa Park, and it was a great day. However, the immense struggle to get a ticket, the thousands of fans who couldn't actually get to the match and the disappointment of not getting to Wembley put a damper on that occasion. These days trips to Wembley are common place for a variety of competitions, and the excitement has gone out of it. So why not let more fans enjoy their team's moment of glory, and let the team benefit from a larger payout as well?

Big Boy,
Of course Wembley is neutral, but if the competition gets diminished to the point that reaching the semi-final, because it is played at Wembley, is the achievement, then it does devalue the competition. What happens next? The quarter finals? Wembley should always be the pinnacle, however much i can understand your point about the trip to Villa Park, just imagine how sweet it would be if you had won there? Getting to Wembley should be the Everest of the English game - you only get there because you have earned the right. A place in the FA Cup semi final should not earn you that right; only winning that semi final should. Playing at the home of football is an honour that should only be bestowed on players good enough to play for England (or the other national sides they play there) or who are part of a team to reach a domestic cup or playoff final.

[Big Boy]

I will have to agree to disagree about Wembley - all I can say is that it's no real achievement to play there these days. It seems that any Mickey Mouse competition culminates there.


rzr wrote:

can't agree with that bb,
the stats suggest otherwise,
the last 12 years have been dominated by the 'big 4' & since 1989 only spurs in (91) & everton in (95) have won it outside of the 'big 4'.

OK, the big 4 have been lucky up until now - they've scraped through the earlier rounds.

If my team Plymouth were to draw Man Utd (or any of the top teams) in the 3rd round at Home Park there would be an incredible rush to buy tickets. This would be to see the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo. They would be paying top dollar for tickets, and in reality it would be to see the Man Utd reserve team playing - a complete rip off.

OK, Man Utd reserves would probably be good enough to win, but you could pay any other week to see Plymouth play against another Championship first team - you'd get what you'd paid for. If you wanted to watch reserve team football, you would not expect to pay top dollar.

[chelsea]

Now back on the subject of the semi finals. If you add the total average attendance of all 4 sides, I do not think that they will total 80,000 in total, so what is the spectacle going to look like at Wembley of two semi finals with half empty stadiums.

Even at Old Trafford and the Emirates I doubt that they would even fill both of them.
I really cannot see the sense of the FA doing this, it will take away from the big match atmosphere that the semi's used to create.

When the finals were played at Cardiff, cannot remember if they played the semi finals down there as well. If they did then that is probably why they are now continuing it on at Wembley.

Anyway is a crap idea and the quicker they revert back to the old ways the better.

[Zidane]

Last night....Middlesbrough 0 Cardiff 2.

Middlesbrough were absolutely appalling.Some of their players must be on 15-20k per week.On last nights performance 15-20 baht would be a more realistic figure !
But congrats to Cardiff.You played well and fully deserved your win.
Ironic that this seasons FA Cup sees Cardiff going to Wembley instead of teams going to Cardiff !

Bristol Rovers 1 WBA 5.
Didnt see the game but according to reports the scoreline was a bit harsh on poor Bristol.

Whatever the permutations of this semi final draw you are going to have a half empty Wembley.Playing the semis there does devalue the competition.
If Man U had reached the semis they could play at the Emirates(capacity 60,000 +) or if it was Arsenal they could play at Old Trafford (75,000 +).
And if the draw was Man U v Arsenal then I'm sure Villa Park or St.James Park would suffice as a one off (50,000 +).
But we certainly dont have to worry about that one this season !

Zidane

[Big Boy]

Now back on the subject of the semi finals. If you add the total average attendance of all 4 sides, I do not think that they will total 80,000 in total, so what is the spectacle going to look like at Wembley of two semi finals with half empty stadiums.

Even at Old Trafford and the Emirates I doubt that they would even fill both of them.
I really cannot see the sense of the FA doing this, it will take away from the big match atmosphere that the semi's used to create.

When the finals were played at Cardiff, cannot remember if they played the semi finals down there as well. If they did then that is probably why they are now continuing it on at Wembley.

Anyway is a crap idea and the quicker they revert back to the old ways the better.

When you get to the semi final of the cup, supporters crawl out from a variety of places - we'll see, but I would expect both semis to attract a full crowd. The teams then benefit from much higher gate receipts - its a win/win situation.

Zidane wrote:

Middlesbrough were absolutely appalling.Some of their players must be on 15-20k per week.On last nights performance 15-20 baht would be a more realistic figure !
But congrats to Cardiff.You played well and fully deserved your win.

You forgot to congratulate Middlesbrough - one of the few Premiership Teams to field a full squad in this tournament. However, I have to agree, they were well outplayed.

[JimmyGreaves]

You forgot to congratulate Middlesbrough - one of the few Premiership Teams to field a full squad in this tournament.

That statement is a load of bolloxs!

[Big Boy]

JG,

You must be watching the tournament with tinted glasses. Even lowly Plymouth vs Hull did not field their first team squads. Both team left out key players for their 3rd round tie.

Its a fact, most decent Premiership sides aren't bothered with the competition, and the others field weakened sides because they think its fashionable.

[Fybo]

Well I think he FA Cup has been fantastic this year.

Well I am a little biased with that view; this morning I am awaiting for the postman to deliver my Pompey semi-final tickets. Really looking forward to our Wembley trip on April 5th.

I've had to change my Thai travel arrangements just in case we make the final, but I will still make my annual pilgrimage to HH in early May.



BTW, Big Boy, when Plymouth came to Fratton Park in the 4th round, we fielded the strongest team we had available. We were missing a few key player who were away at the African Cup Of Nations. Also, I must say your support was one of the best "awayers" I have seen this season, good luck in your quest to reach the play-offs.

[Big Boy]

Fybo,

Your post says it all. Portsmouth are one of the few Premiership teams that really want trophy this year, and should win it. They have taken the right attitude, and are still in the competition.

Don't get me wrong, other teams such as Middlesbrough wanted it as well, but they just ere not good enough.

Regarding Green Army promotion this season, although I joke about it, the thought of Premiership football at Home Park horrifies me. Plymouth are not ready, and would end up doing another Derby. Paul Sturrock is a great manager, but he gets most of his talent from Scotland. We all know that the Scottish Premier League is the equivalent of the English Championship. So where would he strengthen the team from?

[Fybo]

BB, get yourselves promoted and then you can get ready, yes it will be tough, but it is for every team that gets promoted. We we went up after winning the league in 2003, Harry Redknapp built a team that would be good enough to stay in the Premiership and not much more. He brought in a few seasoned campaigners, like Teddy Sheringham, Patrik Berger, etc, it's this sort of experience you need to bolster the squad. Keep believing!


Oh! and I snogged my postie today as he delivered my Semi-Final tickets.

[redzonerocker]

Oh! and I snogged my postie today as he delivered my Semi-Final tickets.

& now, i bet he's hoping you make it to the final !!

[Fybo]

Oh! and I snogged my postie today as he delivered my Semi-Final tickets.

& now, i bet he's hoping you make it to the final !!

Yep, we made it to the final.

Fantastic day out at Wembley yesterday and looking forward to seeing Sol Campbell lifting the FA Cup for Pompey.

Below is a photo of the Pompey crowd just before kick-off.