Smoking ex-pats

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MDMK
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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:36 pm

J.J.B. wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:38 pm
Mrs J.J.B., who has never smoked, commented the other day that she would rather follow someone in the street smoking a cigarette and get second-hand smoke than someone ‘vaping’ and get second-hand vapour. I tend to agree. These billowing clouds of sickly-scented vapour can make you feel quite ill and it’s commonplace for vapers to ‘give it large’ on their electro devices, as if they are justified in doing so because it’s not tobacco.
Not all vape fluids have a sickly sweet scent. Some do. Some don’t. Just like anything else scent based really. You can get them with zero scent, with fruity scent, with tobacco scent, spicey, yeasty, but not all are sickly sweet. Some are horribly bitter too.

The billowing clouds/vapers giving it large, you only get this if you specifically want to make them. You need the right powerful device and the right syrupy type of fluid. None of the vapers I know or see daily at work can do these big clouds of smoke. But in the vape shop and youtube I have seen them do it.

As for your “as if they are justified in doing so because it’s not tobacco”

This is the bit I find truly interesting.

Who gets to decide what legal things people are and aren’t entitled to do? One man’s meat is another man’s poison afterall. The scent you find obnoxious, the next guy might find it perfectly pleasant. Should people really stop vaping or feel like entitled arseholes because you find it a sickly smell?

if you were supreme ruler, you would ban e cigarettes.

I would ban people who smell of sweat or smell of unwashed bits. Then I would ban all cheap deodorants and perfumes. Then I would ban overused expensive perfumes. Then I would ban people who use too much.

The next person would ban cars and motorbikes because they don’t like the smell of exhaust fumes.

You have facebook groups here, and I am NOT kidding, trying to ban barbeques and wood-burners used in peoples’ gardens because of the obnoxious smell they create.

What about alcohol... plenty of people hate the smell of that.

What about vegetarians and vegans. I feel perfectly entitled to cook my steak, in my home or on my bbq, and I really couldn't give a shit that I am subjecting them to vapours they find repulsive.

If we’re talking indoors vaping in enclosed spaces I can see your point to a degree. But if we’re talking outdoors I think the onus is on you to use a degree of tolerance. Same way I do when I meet someone with Lynx or Axe deo on. I’d rather make the sign of the cross and hiss at them, but hey, live and let live.

Whatever smell you want to mention, you can be guaranteed that somebody somewhere has an issue with it.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by laphanphon » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:53 pm

MDMK wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:36 pm
This is the bit I find truly interesting.

Who gets to decide what legal things people are and aren’t entitled to do?

Should people really stop vaping or feel like entitled arseholes because you find it a sickly smell?
No, they should stop because technically, vaping is illegal in Thailand. The Gov't, who does decide legal things.......have.

Vaping......not allowed.
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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by HHTel » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:12 pm

And users have already spent time in jail. I see vaping quite openly but it only takes one disgruntled cop or 'grass' and you're carted off!

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:08 pm

oh I wouldn't vape in Thailand, I wouldn't do anything even remotely likely to bring me into the line of vision of the boys in brown - but the people so against how they smell, if they think they smell awful in Thailand then they must think they smell awful even in countries where they are not prohibited - does that mean vapers doing it (legally) should stop vaping as it *is* really such an awful smell, or people whose nostrils are easily offended should start being a bit more tolerant of others? Or if they became legal in Thailand would the awful aroma then suddenly become bearable?

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by STEVE G » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:50 pm

One thing I've noticed is that some users of these electronic vape things can produce huge amounts of smoke. Now I've spent many years of my life in pubs, when they were full of smoke and it never bothered me but the last time I was back on the UK, I saw one person completely fill a large pub with smoke from one of these devices. That wasn't so bad but it occurred to me that if ten people were producing that much smoke, you wouldn't be able to see, it would be like burning hedge trimmings in the pub.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:11 pm

It has to do with the type of fluid and machine used. I think you need the most syrupy fluid, and a machine with a powerful battery. I can't see why anyone would want to make these big clouds. I read somewhere that it so they can do tricks with the smoke/vapour. No idea if that's true though. Here in NL vaping is pretty much barred in the exact same way smoking is. Not sure about pubs, but banned in all other public spaces (inside) - but allowed in smoking areas outside.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by HHTel » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:47 am

I read somewhere that it so they can do tricks with the smoke/vapour. No idea if that's true though.
Quite clever but should be kept to entertainment and not to show off in public places.


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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by MDMK » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:57 am

public places like malls, trains & hospitals I agree with you,

However I have no issue with anyone doing it outdoors in public spaces.

Live and let live!

I have never liked the intolerant stance on anything much at all.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by 404cameljockey » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 am

MDMK wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:08 pm
oh I wouldn't vape in Thailand, I wouldn't do anything even remotely likely to bring me into the line of vision of the boys in brown - but the people so against how they smell, if they think they smell awful in Thailand then they must think they smell awful even in countries where they are not prohibited - does that mean vapers doing it (legally) should stop vaping as it *is* really such an awful smell, or people whose nostrils are easily offended should start being a bit more tolerant of others? Or if they became legal in Thailand would the awful aroma then suddenly become bearable?
It's not an awful smell at all but it can be strong if the vaper output is high. Chocolate, strawberry, cream soda; I don't know what's in the bloody heads of vapers!

But it's personal choice I guess; I'd like all Cinnabons banned from malls because walking past them makes me want to heave.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by 404cameljockey » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:36 am

laphanphon wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:53 pm
MDMK wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:36 pm
This is the bit I find truly interesting.

Who gets to decide what legal things people are and aren’t entitled to do?

Should people really stop vaping or feel like entitled arseholes because you find it a sickly smell?
No, they should stop because technically, vaping is illegal in Thailand. The Gov't, who does decide legal things.......have.

Vaping......not allowed.
So is playing pool, apparently. Why expect that just because something is 'technically' illegal it won't happen? OK, I know no-one is arrested for playing pool. Surprising really, pulling pool players could be a good source of income for someone. :D

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by handdrummer » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:17 am

Durian vapes. Now that would be a big seller in Thailand.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by J.J.B. » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:24 pm

MDMK, you’ve taken my point about vapers and added-in the concept of tolerance and then taken degrees of tolerance to entirely new levels. You are advocating that we need to be tolerant “to a degree”, which is a problem when taken with your other point that “one man’s meat is another man’s poison”, because we all see things differently.

Fundamentally, I agree with your call for “live and let live”. I will do all I can not to irritate my fellow planet dwellers and only request they do the same in return.

My point about vapers vs. smokers is that vapers seem to feel they are more justified to inflict their vape on you than smokers do with smoke. We can largely agree that smoking is bad for health, both for the smoker and those subjected to second-hand smoke. People are justified in asking not to be subjected to smoke against their will, provided they aren’t pious morons about it and there is a geniune concern. Earlier posts in this thread show how much smokers go out of their way to accommodate such reasonable requests.

With vaping, though, the jury is out and evidence concerning health issues with nicotine vapour or inhaling second-hand vapour is not fully baked. Some people who vape appear to take advantage of this vacuum in knowledge and vape with impunity, as if they are more justified to do so. I have a view on what I consider “meat” and what I consider “poison”, it is my decision to set my “degree of tolerance” to the actions of others. What is interesting to me is that the actions of some vapers appears to suggest they want me to change my degree of tolerance based on their behaviour and this is where I take issue.
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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by MDMK » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:13 pm

J.J.B. wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:24 pm

Fundamentally, I agree with your call for “live and let live”. I will do all I can not to irritate my fellow planet dwellers and only request they do the same in return.
I can't do multiple quotes so have to reply in bits.... :-)

I have never came across vapers vaping in places where I wouldn't come across smokers smoking. So I simply can't say anything about vapers feeling more entitled to inflict their habit on others than smokers would. In what sort of situations is this happening? I mentioned earlier about getting really pissed off at anti-smokers expecting me not to smoke in a 500 meter radius of them. I ignored that kind stuff and smoked anyway as I considered I had already extended far more than enough courtesy, manners and consideration before lighting up. If you sit down on a park bench next to a man vaping and ask him to put it out, while the next bench along is empty, the vaping man says no. I am on the side of the vaper. However, if you're first on the bench and he sits next to you, then it's him who should piss off to the next bench along.

If vapers are getting even half of the unreasonable expectations and nasty comments that smokers are getting, then it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they become stroppy and uncooperative.

As for the yet to be discovered dangers of 2nd hand vaping, personally I can't get my knickers even slightly wrinkled on this front. They must completely pale in comparison to breathing in the fumes of cars, buses and motorbikes, and breathing those in hardly worries me. I reckon the risk from 2nd hand cigarette smoke outdoors is negligible, so 2nd hand vape liquid doesn't even register on my radar. As for the inconvenience non-smokers are confronted with when a smoker lights up.... every situation is of course unique, but I see as many completely intolerant anti-smokers as I do completely inconsiderate smokers. As someone said earlier, too many people on both sides are leaving the sensible middle ground and setting up camp in one of the extremes. That's never good news.

As for the "where to set my degree of tolerance".... I would not complain about someone vaping in open outdoor spaces anymore than I would complain about someone's barbecue or the fumes from their truck or motorbike. If I was stuck in a broom cupboard with them it would be another matter!

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by HHTel » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:09 pm

I think some are missing the point of complaints against 'vapours'. The normal vapour (e-cigarette and the like) is not in question. The argument (and I agree) is about the 'Power Vapours" which can be entertaining in the right venue, is unacceptable in normal company.

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Re: Smoking ex-pats

Post by 404cameljockey » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:59 am

HHTel wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:09 pm
I think some are missing the point of complaints against 'vapours'. The normal vapour (e-cigarette and the like) is not in question. The argument (and I agree) is about the 'Power Vapours" which can be entertaining in the right venue, is unacceptable in normal company.
This is true. My son has both and uses his power vapour at home (and at my home :roll: ) and a regular one when he goes out.

And good grammar lesson from HHTel. :)

He vapes/is vaping.
He's a vaper.
He uses a vapour.

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