The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

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STEVE G
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:36 pm

buksida wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:04 am
This should give you a bit more insight, happy reading!

https://www.bitcoinmining.com/
So after reading that and links from it, the answer seems to be that there is no value to the computing work required to mine Bitcoin, the code is open source and consists of basically generating random numbers that solve an arbitrary equation. This is where I struggle with the whole concept, governments can make money out of nothing, which is at least efficient, compared with Bitcoin that effectively makes it out of electricity.

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:34 am

You need to understand some high level mathematics to understand how it works. Most people don't.

Most people didn't understand how the internet worked either when that was in its infancy.

More on the math here (its way over my head too, so don't worry): https://www.coindesk.com/math-behind-bitcoin/
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:04 pm

buksida wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:34 am
You need to understand some high level mathematics to understand how it works. Most people don't.

Most people didn't understand how the internet worked either when that was in its infancy.

More on the math here (its way over my head too, so don't worry): https://www.coindesk.com/math-behind-bitcoin/
That explains how the security of Bitcoin works but isn't mining basically solving an arbitrary equation that doesn't form part of that? ( I'm not totally sure myself yet! )

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:10 pm

It is all part of the same system, the public and private keys are part of the cryptography behind the blockchain which makes the data immutable - which is why it is superior to fiat which can just be printed or manipulated (as many countries have been doing for decades).
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:15 pm

OK, I've got a bit further now. As you say, it's part of the same equation but it seems that it has been made artificially difficult to increase the amount of computational power required to verify transactions:

" Proof of work adds artificial computational difficulty to the ledger. The common protocol requires that of any two conflicting states we observe on the network we select the one that was hardest to generate. We also require that there is a common and high level of hardness to recording transactions in the ledger.

Mining is a process of generating proof of work. The way it works is that all miners compete to find a number that, when added to the block of transactions, causes this block to hash to a code with certain rare properties. Based on the cryptographic features of the hash function used in this process, finding such a rare number is hard, but verifying its validity when it is found is easy. For the ledger to be considered self-consistent we require that every block contain such rare number whose hardness we control based on the size of the participating network (a value expressed as a hash-rate)."

Explaining blockchain — how proof of work enables trustless consensus
https://keepingstock.net/explaining-blo ... bed27f0845

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Yep, this is why there are superior cryptocurrencies such as Ethereum which is moving to proof-of-stake for verification purposes:


The Bitcoin chain is essentially a dinosaur in terms of what the tech can do now compared to 3-4 years ago, its like Netscape when the internet started out!
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:44 pm

I think understanding Ethereum will have to wait until tomorrow!

Incidentally, I came across this website where someone solves the Bitcoin equation with paper and pencil! ( Just for the hell of it obviously. )

http://www.righto.com/2014/09/mining-bi ... paper.html
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by PET » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:59 pm

Gosh if it had been that simple I would have given it a go.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:19 pm

PET wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:59 pm
Gosh if it had been that simple I would have given it a go.
Apparently, if you can do that something like 3,000,000,000,000,000 times, you get a Bitcoin!

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:09 pm

Now you see why it takes so much computing power and electricity!

This could be the beginning of the end for Thailand's crypto party, thought it was too good to be true. Thailand as usual is following China's lead with constant clampdowns and zero tolerance for freedom, but it is to be expected from an inward looking military dictatorship.

Anyone trading on Thailand's BX exchange may be well advised to move their crypto to a different one in a Singapore or Hong Kong. I have contacted them for their official stance.

Central bank bans banks from cryptocurrencies
The Bank of Thailand said on Monday it had asked financial institutions not to get involved in cryptocurrency transactions for fear of possible problems from the unregulated trading.

Banks are prohibited from investing or trading in cryptocurrency, offering cryptocurrency exchanges and creating platforms for cryptocurrency trading, the central bank’s governor, Veerathai Santiprabhob, said in a circular.

They are also banned from allowing clients to use credit cards to buy cryptocurrency, and from advising customers on investing or trading in cryptocurrency, the bank said.

The central bank said cryptocurrencies were not legal tender in Thailand and it was worried that they may be used in illegal activities such as money laundering or supporting terrorism.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ne ... currencies
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:44 pm

Panic over ...
These guys have to be the fastest responding company I've ever dealt with in Thailand.
Thank you for contacting us
They actually ban bank and money institution to not invest in cryptocurrency but we are not both don't worry sir.
Thank you
Sincerely,
Isara
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Bitcoin.co.th | BX.in.th | CoinPay.in.th
I asked about an official press release to reassure their customers who maybe reading the misreported news articles and she said;
It actually does not involve us at all but I will talk with my boss about this issue tomorrow.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by hhinner » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:56 am

BBC Panorama - Who Wants to be a Bitcoin Millionaire? Currently on iplayer, youtube and torrent sites.

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Vital Spark » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:58 pm

^Just watched the programme. Didn't learn anything new, just a rehash of whatever's been posted in the news during the last couple of months. Typically of Panorama (which used to be a great progamme 30 yrs ago), it was desperately trying to dig up some dirt and showing a pyramid scam, and a mummsy housewife who invested £400 in December and hopes she'll make enough money to buy a house and set up a pug sanctuary! :shock:

I guess it's worth a look, just for amusement value...

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by hhinner » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm

The things I found interesting were:
The presenter said he'd been following Bitcoin for 5 years but didn't say if he'd ever bought any;
The guy who some time ago had almost exactly predicted the btc usd rate as at the end of 2017, and his prediction for the future;
The one coin scam; (inserted as a warning to naive crypto buyers?)
The huge mining farm in Iceland.

But no explanation of uses of the underlying block chain technology and other cryptos further developments of block chain and proof of work, proof of stake, etc. This not surprising really as the program was sort of Bitcoin for dummies.
Plus, of course, the anti crypto banking expert (from UBS in this case).

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:33 pm

This could be huge ...

Western Union to Trial Ripple XRP Transfers
San Francisco-based Ripple has not had the best of starts to 2018. Its cryptocurrency, XRP, has been on a downward slide since the first week of January and has lost almost 70% of its value. However, things could be about to turn around for the company as Western Union is now test driving its transfer technology.

http://bitcoinist.com/ripple-western-un ... transfers/
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