POLL: Who is the Boss in Your House?

[richard]

Sounds good Kenny and I know you and Palini are one of the lucky ones

I'm beginning to believe that those relationships where one's Thai lady has spent some significant time in one's own country seem a lot happier and I guess it's due to learning more about the western way. Similarly I believe farangs who have taken time to immerse themselves in the Thai family learn where there girl is 'coming from'

Be interesting to know just how many of those that have posted on this thread share my thoughts

[Pleng]

The western divorce rate does not lie

Neither do the rates of single Thai mothers!

The question is, basically, have you come to Thailand and adopted the same role with your Thai partner as you had with your western wife or girlfriend? In my observation, some men have. Whether that is a good thing or not could make a decent topic for discussion.

Having thought about it further, I guess I don't really agree with my "why come all the way over here just to get involved in a situation you could have back home?" sentiment, because would imply that I believe that every person who moved here did so for a woman, or women - which clearly isn't true. People can move here for all kinds of reasons. If somebody moved here because they liked the climate or the golf, or for work or whatever reason then if they were already the type of person to get into a "she who must be obeyed" relationship back home, it figures that they'll most likely get into a similar relationship over here.

If somebody specifically moved to Thailand to get away from western women, western-style relationships (whatever it is they perceive a "western-style" relationship to actually be) and then ended up in a similar situation here then one might consider that strange. But then again, if they were incapable of maintaining an equal-status style relationship in their homeland, then why would they be able to here?

[kendo]

Just for you Mr Plum



Kendo.

[MrPlum]

...if they were incapable of maintaining an equal-status style relationship in their homeland, then why would they be able to here?

Because in Asia men are typically designated the breadwinner and women the carer of the family. In the west men change nappies, push the buggy, wash dishes, cook and iron their own shirts. Not every man but more so than, say, in the 50's. This could be because both parties need to work but it is also down to a cultural change.

It takes about 5 years before a foreign partner, brought back to your own country, will adjust to be pretty much the same as the western women. One reason why some men, who take up with foreign ladies, will stay in that ladies country, where the roles are more likely to be sustained.

It isn't a matter of women 'keeping their place' or being 'submissive'. It is simply what is the cultural norm. What I see some western men do is instead of adjusting to the local customs, they encourage their wives, or girlfriends, to adopt theirs. You might think this is to be expected but my point was that men, in the main, have an opportunity to grasp the leadership role they are offered.

I have seen many European men travel outside their own countries seeking wives because their own pool is too 'toxic'. Whether Germans seeking Polish women, or Brits going to Thailand or the Philippines. The gender roles are simply more traditional, although that is gradually changing.

So you are attracted by the traditional role in the first place, then set about re-defining it.

[sand_dancer]

Mr Plum

It isn't a matter of women 'keeping their place' or being 'submissive'. It is simply what is the cultural norm. What I see some western men do is instead of adjusting to the local customs, they encourage their wives, or girlfriends, to adopt theirs. You might think this is to be expected but my point was that men, in the main, have an opportunity to grasp the leadership role they are offered.

A few points in this paragraph that are intriguing......

1. The use of it isn't a matter of women " keeping their place " or being " submissive ".....

2. The " cultural Norm ".....

3. Grasp the " Leadership role offered ".....

Which leads me to these points.....

1. To raise such a statement..... Suggests to me...... That you are having some doubts about your
own sexuality / masculinity......

2. The " Cultural Norm "..... Is this not what has caused so many problems in the " West "..... Cultural norm to me....Just like religion..... Is merely a way of keeping the masses in line.....

3. Does there really need to be a " leadership role " in a marriage / partnership.....?

To brush stroke that into..... What appears to be a typical Thai / Thai Cultural Norm..... Thai man expected to Drink..... Womanise......Gamble.....Beat..... etc etc.....

Is it any wonder then that we have posts like " My friend is looking for a good Farang man "..... Is it beyond the realms of possibility..... that certain Thai Woman are subtly trying to change the Thai Cultural norm..... In the only way they know how.....?

[sargeant]

quote Kendo

but I have always tried to encourage and empower her to be my equal.
I don't want a trophy wife that just says yes to anything and doesn't make decisions, we share these and often disagree and end up having to compromise.

That is exactly my point of view

I want my wife to be able to make decisions
a. Because i wont be around forever and it will stand her in good stead after i am gone
b. She comes from this culture and has the experience that i do not have
c. Because I KNOW i DO NOT know it all and will defer to her inbuilt intelligence and cultural knowledge to make better decisions for us BOTH. (two brains are better than one)

I find the idea that the male MUST be the dominant partner based purely on the fact he has testicles to be very unintelligent and in my experience nearly always is just a mask to hide a deeper problem

[buksida]

So what about the guys, and there seem to be a lot of them, that have seemingly insecure Thai girlfriends that are calling them 12 times a day to check on whereabouts, insist that they return home at a specified hour, are insanely jealous of everything, and have childish tantrums if things don't go their way.

This would drive me nuts!

[sand_dancer]

So what about the guys, and there seem to be a lot of them, that have seemingly insecure Thai girlfriends that are calling them 12 times a day to check on whereabouts, insist that they return home at a specified hour, are insanely jealous of everything, and have childish tantrums if things don't go their way.

This would drive me nuts!

Buksi

I think it would be fair to say that this happens the world over.....

It really says it all about those sad individuals.....

[Big Boy]

Being the head of the household doesn't mean you are some kind of tyrant. To me the man is 'King' and the woman 'Queen'. Each make their own contributions but the man still has the final word.

I've gone back to the beginning on this one. I found myself focussing on the above stereotypical statement.

In my case, the statement is absolute poppycock. Mrs BB is typically Asian in that she is subserviant where it matters e.g.

- During a recent hospital stay she was there caring for me, which included bathing, feeding and dressing me at one stage. No questions, she was there and got on with it.

- If we go to a self service restaurant, she will sit me down and make sure I have food before looking after her own needs. Likewise if we go to a party where there is a buffet.

- In the UK, it would always be Mrs BB who would go to the bar to get drinks.

I could go on. So, IMHO Mrs BB has not lost any of her culture. Of course, I know a good thing when I see it, so I don't object too much.

However, the sexist statement, "The man still has the final word" could be very counter productive. Mrs BB has had very little formal education, but she is one of the cleverest people I know. Why would I insist on having the final word, when I trust Mrs BB's judgement more than my own? We're coming up to our Silver Wedding Anniversary, and that is not achieved through dominance, it is achieved by playing off each other's combined abilities.

[MrPlum]

1. To raise such a statement..... Suggests to me...... That you are having some doubts about your own sexuality / masculinity......

Hmm... When I said 'King' and 'Queen' that wasn't quite what I had in mind.

When I came to Thailand it wasn't only for the sunshine and the beach. I was seeking a partner with traditional ideas about the roles of men and women. Something like my own parents. Not because I was having doubts about my own sexuality (where did that come from?) but because I was sick to death of fighting the battle of the sexes. I was married to an American retail professional for 14 years, steeped in management BS, perfectionism and assertiveness training, who had read the 'How To' book on marriage and her expectations were totally unrealistic and impossible for me to meet. I should have walked out after a week but having been told by 'cultural norms' and 'How To' books that traditional relationships were 'old-fashioned', coupled with a Taurean stubbornness not to fail, I toughed it out. Ask me if this thoroughly modern miss is my ideal partner? I dare you. JJB sounds like he will understand.

There are thousands of men travelling to Asia, Eastern Europe and South America seeking women with traditional values. They aren't doing it without cause. I am not embarrassed being one of them and my present g/f is terrific. It is not about dishing out orders she has to 'submit' to. I can mention something and she just gets on with it, happily with no fuss. Not materialism. No unrealistic expectations. No demands for me to constantly 'meet her needs'. No seeking approval for every decision. I am sure she would be hated by the men-hating 'feminazi' type I met recently in Market Village.

So, yes, I am 'boss' in my own house. Not an 'equal partner'. Released from the household drudge, I can concentrate on making (or losing) money and being the provider.

So perhaps the POLL question is wrong and should have been re-phrased to 'Is Your Relationship Modern or Traditional?'

The danger with a traditional relationship is when your unsophisticated village girl starts to see how the modern miss lives and comes to envy it. She receives a new 'education' from other wives or girlfriends, the media or their foreign partners. I choose to live here and not return home with my partner, to limit such influences. Some men I see, seem to have surrendered without a fight to the inevitability of his partner changing, which may come about simply because your lifestyle and friends are more educated, sophisticated and affluent.

After 7 years my g/f's attitude to her 'gender role' has changed little. I'm grateful for that. Observing others, though, it seems they have just rolled over without a fight.

Whether 'modern' or 'traditional' is better is probably a subjective choice. Those who started with 'traditional' and now have 'modern' can better answer this question.

Instead of arguing over patriarchal and matriarchal or me repeating myself any further, do a search for 'gender roles in Asia'.



BB. I agree with your excellent post 100%.

[kendo]

I agree with some Thai girl are insanely jealous, luckely I have complete freedom to do what I want including lads holidays stag do's in dodgy country's I really respect her for that.

Mods my Harry Enfield YouTube clip worked until I logged in then disapired any ideas or shall we turn it into a conspiracy
Kendo.

[MrPlum]

Mods my Harry Enfield YouTube clip worked until I logged in then disapired

Works fine for me.

[Big Boy]

Mods my Harry Enfield YouTube clip worked until I logged in then disapeared any ideas or shall we turn it into a conspiracy

I'm the one who transformed it into it's current format. I've just checked it here and can see nothing wrong. Incidentally, I'm using a bastardised version of the link that you originally provided. If it doesn't work, you might want to try your original link to see if that still works. Try it again, and let me know if it's still a problem.

[kendo]

Mr Plum
Wrote
I have seen many European men travel outside their own countries seeking wives because their own pool is too 'toxic'. Whether Germans seeking Polish women, or Brits going to Thailand or the Philippines. The gender roles are simply more traditional, although that is gradually changing.

My thought
Most single men travel to Asia for sex, beer, and sunshine.

Kendo.

[kendo]

Mods my Harry Enfield YouTube clip worked until I logged in then disapeared any ideas or shall we turn it into a conspiracy

I'm the one who transformed it into it's current format. I've just checked it here and can see nothing wrong. Incidentally, I'm using a bastardised version of the link that you originally provided. If it doesn't work, you might want to try your original link to see if that still works. Try it again, and let me know if it's still a problem.

Since I logged in it's vanished don't quite understand that as it worked before, can you repost it please.
Kendo.

[Mod Edit] Don't know why you can't see it. Can you see it here?