Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

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jumusman
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Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by jumusman »

I recently spent a week in Tokyo over Christmas with my Thai girlfriend and had an absolutely amazing time (minus the cold weather) but have returned quite inquisitive about culture, politeness and the different attitudes you find from one Asian country to another. I find Thai's to be very friendly and polite and really enjoy living here but found Japan to be on a different level completely. Here are some of the main differences that I observed

Traffic - Everyone obeyed the rules of the road and the signs, nobody that I saw drove down the road in the opposite direction just because it saves time or they were lazy, at every crossing when it was time for the pedestrians to walk no cars tried to cheat and go forward, at every street where there wasn't a pedestrian crossing every car we encountered actually stopped and politely waved us across.

Queues - Christmas week was very busy, but be it the line to see the front desk clerk at my hotel, Family Mart or a grocery store there was an orderly line, sometimes even arrows on the ground leading to each register, nobody cut in line... ever... you followed the rules. This also extended to the subway system, anytime I encountered an escalator, if you were not moving you stood on the left, if you needed to get by and were in a hurry you stepped to the right. Again, seemed like nobody broke the rules. (Side note - Friday provided a nice reminder about the Thai queuing system. I was standing in line at the Tennis tournament picking up my tickets that I purchased online, I was next in line and there were about 10 falangs behind me lined up neatly. A Thai woman walks directly in front of me and hands her slip to the attendant who promptly gives her the tickets her falang husband had ordered). If someone could take the time to explain how this works I would love to know either A or B below, I am leaning towards the latter.

A. She didn't see the line of people and made an honest mistake
B. Saw the line but simply didn't give a shit because this is Thailand.


Quality - Be it services provided or good purchased everything seemed to be about quality. I already knew this was important to Japanese people but I was not expecting it to be such a high level. I laugh at people who tell me they go to Bangkok to buy clothes because of the price but never once mention the quality. My girlfriend and I shopped extensively because of the price/quality of the clothes/shoes offered. There were many shops with racks of dresses either 500 or 100 yen (130 baht to 275 baht) and they were VERY high quality compared to what one might see in Platinum mall in Bangkok for example. Those dresses for 150 baht would probably last about 6 months at the most before falling apart. My girlfriend made the observation that Thais don't care about quality, they care about price, which I tend to agree with. She said they will gladly sell an inferior product to someone and take whatever shortcuts possible just to make more profit. In her eyes this is the same as food in Thailand, instead of getting 10 shrimp in a Pad Thai some places will put 5 in there just to save money.

There were no homeless people or stray dogs anyone to be seen, this was quite a shock! Some of the smaller streets we walked down I was expecting to see or even hear an angry territorial dog but no...

Traffic whistles - There were many crossing guards/traffic police directing traffic with batons that were lit up at night but not one time did I hear a whistle being used. This confused me seeing as here in Thailand it seems completely necessary for anyone to perform a task such as backing a car into a spot without whistling as loudly as possible to assist with this menial task. I would love to show the guy who stands outside of Market Village apparently directing traffic that's leaving (there is only one way to go.. left....) that people can still figure out what to do without a whistle blaring at them..

Babies - Maybe its because it was very cold and people keep babies inside during the cold weather but I really didn't see any! My girlfriend noticed it too and said that in countries where people are highly educated they are not so "baby crazy" and obsessed as this country seems to be with pumping out as many puppies as possible.. They probably take a look at their financial situation or life situation and decide to have babies when they are ready. I tend to agree with her, I have traveled the world extensively visiting over 70 countries an have to say that the poorest, least educated countries seem to be the ones where they have the most offspring. Its sort of sad really because ignorance and poverty only breed more ignorance and poverty.

Again, I was amazed by this country and wonder where their morals, values and apparent constant pursuit of quality all comes from. Is it the way they are raised ? Is it what they learn in school ? I am quite sure its not about religion seeing as Tokyo and Japan as a whole have the lowest crime/murder rates in the world. The most religious countries in the world seem to be the least safe..

At the end of the day though I don't think I could ever live there. For me weather trumps everything - I vow to never again live in a country where the weather goes below 15c... A full week of walking around in 5 degrees C was more than enough...
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by Dannie Boy »

Interesting observations and whilst I won't comment on all that you've posted, I think the one thing that probably covers most of the issues you have raised, lies with education and not just from the classroom, Japanese are obviously taught to obey the rules in school and at home and very largely follow it. I get the impression that this makes them (appear to at least) somewhat robotic, but I say that without knowing any Japanese personally.

Regarding queuing, I recollect BB saying on one of his posts that his wife often jumps the queue, so maybe answer B is more prevelant.
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by Big Boy »

Dannie Boy wrote:I recollect BB saying on one of his posts that his wife often jumps the queue, so maybe answer B is more prevelant.
Yes she does, as do most Thais from what I've seen. Some are better/worse at it than others.

I always say Thais drive the way they walk. How many have you seen them hustling to get in front at traffic lights. How many times have you been the only one waiting at traffic lights when the countdown gets to 0, because Thai always go at 3?

However, getting back to the OP, I would add a 'C' - Saw the line but simply didn't give a shit because she was Thai.
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by caller »

Big Boy wrote:I would add a 'C' - Saw the line but simply didn't give a shit because she was Thai.
Yup, that would have been top of my list as well.

As for Japan, well its a few years since I was there and I loved everything about it. One point not mentioned, is that by and large, they are wealthier than Thais and the birth rate is dropping year by year. Not sure why?
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by oakdale160 »

BB did your wife queue jump when you were living in the UK?
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by Big Boy »

Yes, usually.
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by SpitfireMk3 »

I am married to a Japanese woman for almost 27 years now. You cannot compare the japanese people/society to Thailand. My wife says that living in Japan is like having a mental rubber band twisted all the time. "You do this/you do not that". The codex is very strict and if you do not follow that codex, you will certainly be told and be expected to fall in line. Try seing a Japanese politician or business man being expected to applogise on TV?. Ever seen an appology on Thai TV? Japanese are also afraid of loosing face, but they will pressured to admit fault. Thailand is laissez faire compared to Japan.

She has come to like the "freedom" but it took some years and still there are japanese morality ingrained in her attitude towards others "lazyness".
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by Roel »

Well with regard to the matter of having babies. Thais do not have them despite being poor, they have them because they are poor. Children are their social security. Giving birth at the age of 17 (certainly not an exception) means that the mother will only be in her 30's by the time the child has grown up and expected to start providing to the parents. And then they reckon more children will sooner or later lead to more income for the family. Or as one Thai mother of six once said to me: The more children the bigger the chance one of them marries into wealth or starts a successful business. So apparently this is an exception to the observation that Thais do not think or care about tomorrow.

Completely different situation in Japan of course.
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by STEVE G »

At least you don't have to worry about this in Thailand:

Nine people choke to death eating mochi rice cakes in Japan
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... s-in-japan
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by pharvey »

I've spent a lot of time in Japan over the years, and have to say it certainly ranks very highly on my "favorite countries list"...

Cons: Can be ridiculously expensive with regards to food, drink, hotels, travel etc. .
In general the Japanese are very decent people but can be very, very difficult to work with.
Mobile network & Bank Cards...... Now it's several years since I've been in Japan, but one of the biggest issues I always had was my mobile (then Tri-Band) could not connect to the Japanese mobile network. The Bank cards also had a narrower magnetic strip on the back of the card, so my UK/International card would not work in any of the ATM's in Japan.

Pros: Proper 4 seasons!! Great food, superb infrastructure, education (with a big plus towards common decency), diverse and interesting history, superb scenery.......... Saki in vending machines!!

Would love to go back, and as the Long Haired General has never been but speaks the language very well and is dying to go, I guess we'll get there soon(ish).

:cheers: :cheers:
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by Bristolian »

I visit Japan for a week or so every couple of months as part of my job. As you would not confuse Bangkok as being typical of Thailand the same is true for Tokyo and Japan.

Japan now has the most aged population in the world and the population as stated previously is declining.

Japan has little immigration and relies for the most part on the indigenous population. Costs are high and most Japanese families put a very high value on education.

Like pharvey, I find most Japanese difficult to work with; their loyalty to friends outweighs sensible business decisions to the extent that I have seen businesses fail simply because friendship and loyalty come first. Superficially the Japanese are very friendly to all visitors but there is an inbuilt suspicion and doubt in their minds and it really takes a long term relationship to overcome these issues.

Quality in all things is the common goal. The Japanese are intensely proud of the quality of products and service that they provide and making an unfavorable comparison with goods manufactured or produced in another country does not go down well. Softly softly and slowly slowly are terms best used with doing any business in Japan

Having said all of the above, Japan for me, is one of the most fantastic places to visit. The regimentation in all things is unbelievable but the people, the culture, the futuristic nature of Tokyo, the historic preservation and family values are something we could all learn from.

Would I live there? A resounding ….NO. Would I want to visit frequently to get my Fix? Absolutely!!!

I will visit again this month and can’t wait :cheers:
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by Allenby »

jumusman wrote:I recently spent a week in Tokyo over Christmas ...
Very worthwhile post.
Thank you, "jumusman" for taking time to write about that.

Your experiences and observations parallel mine visiting Tokyo.
Valuable to compare to what we see here in Thailand.

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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by jumusman »

"my mobile (then Tri-Band) could not connect to the Japanese mobile network. The Bank cards also had a narrower magnetic strip on the back of the card, so my UK/International card would not work in any of the ATM's in Japan."



I am sure you would not have that issue now. When I was there after leaving immigration and customs there were numerous desks setup outside that sold SIM cards in all shape and sizes, you could pick data only or data and voice, I chose data only 1 GB package as the speed is so fast you can just use Skype on your phone utilizing 3g-4g and the quality was excellent, didn't see a need to pay the extra money. I would assume most phones now are quad and not tri band unless you buy a very cheap phone. I had a problem at some ATM's but once I figured out I could use the 7-11 ATM machines (7-11 is a bank in Japan also) I didn't have any problems getting cash out.
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

Post by jumusman »

SpitfireMk3 wrote:She has come to like the "freedom" but it took some years and still there are japanese morality ingrained in her attitude towards others "lazyness".
I think that's a wonderful thing! Something I would really appreciate in a partner.
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Re: Culture and Morals - Thailand vs Japan

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Roel wrote:Well with regard to the matter of having babies. Thais do not have them despite being poor, they have them because they are poor. Children are their social security. Giving birth at the age of 17 (certainly not an exception) means that the mother will only be in her 30's by the time the child has grown up and expected to start providing to the parents. And then they reckon more children will sooner or later lead to more income for the family. Or as one Thai mother of six once said to me: The more children the bigger the chance one of them marries into wealth or starts a successful business. So apparently this is an exception to the observation that Thais do not think or care about tomorrow.

Completely different situation in Japan of course.

Reading that just makes me sad. Seems like each kid they have is like buying a lottery ticket of sorts... maybe one will be a big winner. As I mentioned before I believe ignorance and poverty just breed more ignorance and poverty. It's like an obsession here really... every time I visit Market Village there are young Thai women with babies handing them off to other Thai women, nalak, nalak, mankiow... I guess never having kids I just don't get it. I am glad I have a girlfriend who shows no interest in having children whatsoever!
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