Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

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Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Big Boy » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:45 pm

Thailand's Transport Minister said he was surprised to see the United Nations' aviation agency announce a safety downgrade for Thailand-based airlines on its website yesterday.

Air Chief Marshal Prajin Janthong said he was informed by a Thai official that the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) would not make a public announcement about the downgrade, which Thailand had been given 90 days to address.

ACM Prajin said his assistant, Arkom Termpittayapaisith, traveled to the ICAO headquarters in Canada to negotiate for more time to address the agency's safety concerns, and sent him a text message that the ICAO had agreed not to publish any information about Thailand's failure to meet the agency's standards.

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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by dozer » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:23 pm

http://www.icao.int/safety/Pages/USOAP-Results.aspx

With the MERS fears, the IAOC Red flag and the hit on tourism related stocks, Thailand’s benchmark SET index closed 1.13% lower on Friday.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by JamesWest » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:27 pm

Safety and Thailand in the same sentence? :shock:
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by J.J.B. » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:07 pm

There's an interesting distinction between 'issuing' or 'announcing' something and making it generally available. Many governing authorities will proactively issue a press release or press statement over a news wire service, akin to sending an email to the world's journalists, where it concerns an important matter of health or safety. They also do the same when their particular diplomat enjoys a nice cup of tea with some orphans or something but good news doesn't sell as well.

Placing information on a website that is both factually correct and objective is not the same thing, it is the duty of the authority to be transparent. If Amazon changes the price or description of an item on their website, it is not making an announcement or issuing some kind of news. If they launch (yet another) Kindle then they wheel-out Jeff Bezos for a presentation to the world's media and send out press statements and descriptions of the product's great and many virtues ad nauseam.

From what I understand, Thailand are in the wrong here and need to clean-up their act. They have a great airline that has been plundered by cronies who have squandered its reputation. An audit of safety, be it simply based on reporting or box-ticking, has found them wanting and it's entirely proper for their ICAO to state this fact and make it available for those who have a right to know. You know, us!
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Nereus » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:03 pm

JJB wrote:From what I understand, Thailand are in the wrong here and need to clean-up their act. They have a great airline that has been plundered by cronies who have squandered its reputation. An audit of safety, be it simply based on reporting or box-ticking, has found them wanting and it's entirely proper for their ICAO to state this fact and make it available for those who have a right to know. You know, us!
Yes, Thailand is at fault, but It is not any Airline that is being reported on by ICAO, but rather the Thai DCA, and the common half a**sed way of doing things in this country.

From the link provided below:
Please note: A significant safety concern (SSC) does not necessarily indicate a particular safety deficiency in the air navigation service providers, airlines (air operators), aircraft or aerodrome; but, rather, indicates that the State is not providing sufficient safety oversight to ensure the effective implementation of applicable ICAO Standards. Full technical details of the ICAO findings have been made available to the State to guide rectification, as well as to all ICAO Member States to facilitate any actions that they may consider necessary to ensure safety. The State has undertaken to regularly report progress on this matter to ICAO.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by dtaai-maai » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:42 pm

The State has undertaken to regularly report progress on this matter to ICAO.
Thailand has a pro forma report: "Mai bpen rai krup, everything OK".
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Nereus » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:59 am

This should fix it--not! Spread the bribes around and pass the buck! The little children should not be allowed to play with toy trains, never mind aviation matters.

Civil aviation restructure, draft law head to cabinet

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... to-cabinet
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Nereus » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:11 pm

Prajin: No idea when DCA able to meet ICAO safety standards

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transpo ... -standards
Regarding the timeframe for recertification of the 28 airlines, I cannot tell you when it will begin," ACM Prajin said. "We must wait for the plan on personnel, the handbook and the training. I admit that we have several types of battles."
ACM Prajin said the DCA still didn't have a plan on how to address the issues raised by the UN regulatory body.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Nereus » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:11 am

The following is a good explanation:

Air safety row needs clarity

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... ds-clarity
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by dozer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:59 pm

As Philippines gets upgrade, Thailand, Indonesia come under spotlight

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/AC/As-P ... -spotlight

MANILA -- The Philippines on Thursday night was given an important aviation safety upgrade from the European Union, which took all the remaining local carriers off its blacklist.

"All airlines certified in the Philippines, banned since 2010, have been released from the list and are therefore allowed to operate in European airspace," a statement from the EU said.

The EU had blacklisted all Philippine carriers in 2010 due to shortcomings in the country's regulation of the industry. After improvements it had removed Philippine Airlines from the list in July 2013, allowing it to fly to London in November of that year. Cebu Pacific Air, the largest Philippine budget carrier and operated by Cebu Air, was taken off the list last year, but has yet to fly in European skies.


Smaller airlines like Air Philippines, Air Asia Philippines, Skyjet, Island Aviation and South East Asian Airlines International stand to benefit from the upgrade, according to the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines.

The EU's announcement came after a safety audit between April 16 and 24, and an Air Safety Committee meeting in Brussels on June 9 and 10.

The complete lifting of the EU ban reflects the reforms that have taken place to Philippine air safety regulations, previously deemed substandard by international civil aviation authorities.

The U.S. national aviation authority, the Federal Aviation Administration, last year upgraded the Philippines to Category 1, from the Category 2 status it imposed in 2008 after a 2007 safety audit.

The International Civil Aviation Organization in 2009 tagged the Philippines as a "significant safety concern," prompting the EU to blacklist local airlines in 2010. Japanese and South Korean authorities for a time also imposed restrictions on new Philippine flights.

Unable to expand routes due to the ban, the operational efficiency of Philippine carriers suffered. PAL was unable to maximize its long-range Boeing airplanes due to theCategory 2 rating restricting it from flying beyond Los Angeles, San Francisco, Honolulu and Guam. The FAA upgrade last year allowed PAL to add New York to its U.S. operations.

On Friday, local airlines cheered the EU upgrade although they had no immediate plans to fly to Europe. Air Philippines said the lifting of EU ban "will be beneficial [to its] expansion program." Air Asia, meanwhile, hailed it "great news for the tourism industry and the economy."

The spotlight now shifts to Thailand and Indonesia, whose aviation safety standards have been questioned by regulators, Jakarta-based independent aviation consultant Gerry Soejatman said on Friday. "There were talks early this morning that if the Philippines made it, why can't we?"

"What the Philippines has done is that they [thelocal civil aviation authorities] did not blame anybody, they did not look for a scapegoat, they fixed the problem," Soejatman said.

Thailand has been recently classified by the ICAO as a "significant safety concern." Indonesia, for its part, has been languishing in the FAA's Category 2 status since 2007, while only a few carriers can fly to Europe.

The lack of manpower remains an issue that needs to be addressed in Indonesia, while Thailand's political situation is hampering the development of safety regulations.

"In Indonesia, we don't have enough people. We only have 20-30 inspectors when we need 50."

Additional reporting by Nikkei staff writers Wataru Suzuki in Jakarta and Yukako Ono in Bangkok.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Nereus » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:55 am

Prepare for bans, AoT tells airports

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... s-airports

Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) has asked several airport operators to reserve parking spots for aircraft in the event Thai-registered airlines are banned from flying to foreign countries. .......................................>
The ICAO said Thailand fails to meet UN standards, including steps for granting air operator certificates. The FAA raised concerns about a shortage of DCA staff.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by PeteC » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:28 am

Quite honestly, how could they let things deteriorate to this level? In the past they've at least kept their mai pen rai attitude in check when it came to important, international matters. This time however it seems that events have gotten away from them. I'm sure they'll blame the previous government(s) though.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by JamesWest » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:49 am

i can hear the worn out brake pads cutting groves into the disk brakes of expensive SUVs everywhere I go in Thailand.
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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Manit » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:43 am

It may be an appropriate time for a new leadership!

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Re: Minister 'Confused' by Safety Downgrade for Thai Airlines

Post by Khundon1975 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:54 am

From the Bangkok Post article Nereus posted.

"What the ICAO said last January (and this is a paraphrase) is that the government and the DCA were not properly supervising or inspecting the management, aircraft, maintenance plans and hiring of crews"...

If the minister is confused by ICAO statement, then he should step aside and let someone else have a go.

Thai Airways and others, need a root and branch clear out but that will never happen.

Unfortunately, it will take a plane falling out of the sky before they sit up and take notice.

Then we will see the usual Thai thing, of all the executives in front of the Press, pointing at everyone else. With the usual Thai answers of, it wasn't me it was him, excuse.

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