Electric Cars

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STEVE G
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by STEVE G » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:40 pm

This report suggests an increase of electrical consumption from the UK grid of 10% by 2040 with the introduction of electric cars, surely that is possible:
https://www.camecon.com/news/2040vehicleban/

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Nereus » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:04 am

I doubt land Rover has much to worry about just yet:

https://mr4x4.com.au/electric-bollinger ... ter+%23183
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by StevePIraq » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:14 am

The "new" electric cars coming out now are the first major change in motoring since mass production began. Early days now but I foresee enormous changes to lives in the future. Electric cars will develop at an amazing rate and just maybe the utility power issue will not be that big a problem once instant charging or charging while driving comes about.

Other than headlines about petrol and diesel vehicles proposed to be banned in a few countries no formal laws have been passed anywhere that I know of, until such time as formal laws are published no one really knows just how far reaching or how limited any changes will be.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by NOKYAI » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:58 pm

I had a Prius in the UK when they first came out and there was only a short period when I got any reasonable fuel mileage out of it.....spring and autumn! In the summer the air conditioner took a load of power and in the winter the engine had to run to heat the car!
I can see there being some major obstacles to overcome having electric cars in differing climates.
Now semi retired 60:40 Thailand: UK ( seems to be working well)

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by pharvey » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:02 pm

STEVE G wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:40 pm
This report suggests an increase of electrical consumption from the UK grid of 10% by 2040 with the introduction of electric cars, surely that is possible:
https://www.camecon.com/news/2040vehicleban/
I can see a 10% with regards to the introduction of (more) Electric Cars, but consumption/demand on the grid is continually increasing so in effect will be far more than 10% by 2040 IMO. The additional fact that several Coal Fired Power Stations are closing down (or vastly reducing output) in the coming years puts further strain on the grid.

Quite honestly with the usual red tape/bureaucracy/pi$$ing contests, I don't see suitable replacement(s) being put into service before required - unfortunately quite some time before 2040 IMO.

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by pharvey » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:03 pm

NOKYAI wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:58 pm
I had a Prius in the UK when they first came out and there was only a short period when I got any reasonable fuel mileage out of it.....spring and autumn! In the summer the air conditioner took a load of power and in the winter the engine had to run to heat the car!
I can see there being some major obstacles to overcome having electric cars in differing climates.
Very good point.
"You've got to get your first tackle in early, even if it's late". Ray Gravell :wink:

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Nereus » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:40 pm

pharvey wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:03 pm
NOKYAI wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:58 pm
I had a Prius in the UK when they first came out and there was only a short period when I got any reasonable fuel mileage out of it.....spring and autumn! In the summer the air conditioner took a load of power and in the winter the engine had to run to heat the car!
I can see there being some major obstacles to overcome having electric cars in differing climates.
Very good point.
There is no reason why an electric heater cannot be made to run off the battery. Depending on which battery, Tesla run at around 400 Volts. And with the electronics now involved it is not a problem to use what ever voltage below the maximum is suitable.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Homer » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:45 pm

StevePIraq wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:14 am
Electric cars will develop at an amazing rate and just maybe the utility power issue will not be that big a problem once instant charging or charging while driving comes about.
Sure, once they solve the limited range problem, they can then invent entirely new types of batteries. Ones made of plentiful, inexpensive materials with a clean manufacturing process. Ones that charge instantly while consuming far less electricity but still produce the same amp-hours. Charging while driving? They can do that now. Solar panels produce enough watts to run the clock, radio, and the clicking noise made by the turn indicator.

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Felipesed1 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:20 pm

I try not to comment on matters not concerning Huahin (note the title of this Forum!), but I will make an exception.
Have any of these brain-dead, "soundbite" politicians considered that gasoline and diesel are just one of the products of the fractional distillation of petroleum?
Crude oil is separated into many different compounds, with different properties which modern society uses to synthesize other products, plastics, fertilizers, asphalt etc.
This requirement for petroleum products will still continue, and so will the resultant production of the 'lighter' fractions that are currently used for motor vehicle propulsion, i.e. petrol, diesel, aviation fuel.
What do these governments suggest the oil companies do with these products if they are not used in transportation - burn them?

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by RCer » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:54 pm

Felipesed1 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:20 pm
I try not to comment on matters not concerning Huahin (note the title of this Forum!), but I will make an exception.
Have any of these brain-dead, "soundbite" politicians considered that gasoline and diesel are just one of the products of the fractional distillation of petroleum?
Crude oil is separated into many different compounds, with different properties which modern society uses to synthesize other products, plastics, fertilizers, asphalt etc.
This requirement for petroleum products will still continue, and so will the resultant production of the 'lighter' fractions that are currently used for motor vehicle propulsion, i.e. petrol, diesel, aviation fuel.
What do these governments suggest the oil companies do with these products if they are not used in transportation - burn them?
2 words that should never be seen together, politician and thinking (considered). :rasta:

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by pharvey » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:24 am

As an aside, without a move away from Lithium-ion batteries, there'll no doubt be a some major haggling over prices and certainly supply over the likes of Cobalt and Lithium mining/extraction - not to mention the political and environmental issues involved. Who'd not be surprised if the Chinese will not have the market on battery/Lithium/Cobalt supply virtually sewn up in the near future? :roll: : -

"Some 60 per cent of the world’s cobalt comes from this central African country, one the size of western Europe and with gargantuan problems to match. Some industry analysts are predicting a 30-fold increase in cobalt demand by 2030, much of which will come from Congo. Cobalt prices doubled in the past year alone. You might imagine the average Congolese would be thrilled by the prospect of the coming bonanza. But if history is any guide, the average Congolese will gain little — save perhaps from militia violence and perhaps a dangerous, poorly paid job."

Full Article: - https://www.ft.com/content/427b8cb0-71d ... bd07df1a3c

"The world’s soaring demand for cobalt is at times met by workers, including children, who labor in harsh and dangerous conditions. An estimated 100,000 cobalt miners in Congo use hand tools to dig hundreds of feet underground with little oversight and few safety measures, according to workers, government officials and evidence found by The Washington Post during visits to remote mines. Deaths and injuries are common. And the mining activity exposes local communities to levels of toxic metals that appear to be linked to ailments that include breathing problems and birth defects, health officials say.
The Post traced this cobalt pipeline and, for the first time, showed how cobalt mined in these harsh conditions ends up in popular consumer products. It moves from small-scale Congolese mines to a single Chinese company — Congo DongFang International Mining, part of one of the world’s biggest cobalt producers, Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt — that for years has supplied some of the world’s largest battery makers. They, in turn, have produced the batteries found inside products such as Apple’s iPhones — a finding that calls into question corporate assertions that they are capable of monitoring their supply chains for human rights abuses or child labour."


Full Article: - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... n-battery/

"Elemental lithium is flammable and very reactive. In nature, lithium occurs in compounded forms such as lithium carbonate requiring chemical processing to be made usable.
Lithium is typically found in salt flats in areas where water is scarce. The mining process of lithium uses large amounts of water. Therefore, on top of water contamination as a result of its use, depletion or transportation costs are issues to be dealt with. Depletion results in less available water for local populations, flora and fauna.
Toxic chemicals are used for leaching purposes, chemicals requiring waste treatment. There are widespread concerns of improper handling and spills, like in other mining operations around the world.
The recovery rate of lithium ion batteries, even in first world countries, is in the single digit percent range. Most batteries end up in landfill.
In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) points out that nickel and cobalt, both also used in the production of lithium ion batteries, represent significant additional environmental risks."


Full Story: - http://www.kitco.com/ind/Albrecht/2014- ... thium.html

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Dannie Boy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:48 am

In other words, it will reduce one environmental problem and create another - time to go back to the dark ages, then the only pollution was caused by man playing with fire!!

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by StevePIraq » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:00 pm

Dannie Boy wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:48 am
In other words, it will reduce one environmental problem and create another - time to go back to the dark ages, then the only pollution was caused by man playing with fire!!
But that is how the problems started, cutting down trees to burn
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by STEVE G » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:59 pm

Here is an interesting bit of engineering development, German component maker ZF has produced a 200hp electric rear drive module that manufacturers can fit into existing car designs to either turn a front wheel drive car into a hybrid or make a pure electric car. It fits into the same space that the present rear suspension occupies:

http://autoweek.com/article/technology/ ... -carmaking

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by RCer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:28 pm

As with making anything, it all starts with raw materials.

Current technology relies on material that is hard to find, finite in quantity, expensive to collect, and creates an environmental disaster to refine/produce a finished product.

Hydrogen fuel cells are great because the hydrogen can be extrated from regular water and the only emission from them is water. But, a 4 letter word keeps showing up, BOMB. Lol

If they could make them safe, then we'd be working with something that essentially refuels itself.

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