Electric Cars

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Homer
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Homer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:42 pm

STEVE G wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:26 pm
China sees an opportunity to build a thriving domestic car industry with the ability to sell credible Chinesemade cars internationally. It is a plan that was born more than a decade ago but which is only now coming to fruition."
Given how many Chinese exports are shoddy, flimsy, stupid, poorly designed, or some combination of those, how many decades or generations will have to pass before disappointed consumers of such goods will put up a non-trivial amount of money for a Chinese export? How many would, even if was free, use a Chinese export where a failure could kill them?

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Homer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:54 pm

STEVE G wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:12 pm
Surely solar powered electric transportation basically means getting free, renewable, clean energy from the sun instead of buying expensive, finite, dirty energy from people who hate us anyway, I struggle to see why that wouldn't be a laudable goal.
Surely it doesn't. Sunshine, when available, is free, renewable, and clean. Producing electricity is expensive. Producing batteries, solar panels, and other means of turning sunshine into electricity is expensive, uses finite materials, and the by-products of mining and manufacturing are dirty.

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STEVE G
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by STEVE G » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:15 pm

Homer wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:42 pm
STEVE G wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:26 pm
China sees an opportunity to build a thriving domestic car industry with the ability to sell credible Chinesemade cars internationally. It is a plan that was born more than a decade ago but which is only now coming to fruition."
Given how many Chinese exports are shoddy, flimsy, stupid, poorly designed, or some combination of those, how many decades or generations will have to pass before disappointed consumers of such goods will put up a non-trivial amount of money for a Chinese export? How many would, even if was free, use a Chinese export where a failure could kill them?
Electric cars are hugely less complicated to manufacture compared with conventional ones, potentially you can reduce the drive train to two moving parts and only a couple of wear points in the associated bearings. The hard part is making the battery affordable, once you've mastered that, the rest is easy.

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redzonerocker
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by redzonerocker » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:57 am

...As well as India, China and most of the rest of Asia....
STEVE G wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:26 pm
Insight: why demand from China is spurring growth of electric car sales
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... -car-sales

"Why is China pushing so hard for EVs? Apparently motivated by a need to reduce its heavy industry-driven pollution, Chinese officials are in fact determined to break out of the dependence on imported oil, a natural resource the country is famously short of. At the same time, the aim is to take advantage of a once-in- 100-year powertrain shift in order to leapfrog established car makers. By encouraging its home car makers, such as SAIC, Geely and Trumpchi, to focus on electric powertrain technology, China sees an opportunity to build a thriving domestic car industry with the ability to sell credible Chinesemade cars internationally. It is a plan that was born more than a decade ago but which is only now coming to fruition."
You're missing the point a bit.

Of the approx 300 million cars drivers on the road in China, how many will be able to afford a new electric one, the same applies to India and all the other regions I mentioned.
It's not just about building them.

If there was a way to abandon all petrol and diesel cars and everyone had an electric one, could it be possible to generate enough power keep everybody and everything moving, not just on the roads!!??
Think about it for a moment, quite a daunting prospect.

Lastly, the purchase of an electric car manufactured in China has little or no appeal whatsoever.
Their manufacturing standards in most things exported to the west is pretty below par.

As soon as you see the label or stamp, 'made in china' you know the product won't be around for long. :mrgreen:
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Homer » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:46 am

redzonerocker wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:57 am
You're missing the point a bit.
We'll never know if missing the point was unintentional. What is clear is he missed it by a bit in the same way Columbus missed the East Indies by a bit.

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STEVE G
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by STEVE G » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:21 am

Homer wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:46 am
redzonerocker wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:57 am
You're missing the point a bit.
We'll never know if missing the point was unintentional. What is clear is he missed it by a bit in the same way Columbus missed the East Indies by a bit.
I didn't write the quote, it came from a mainstream automotive publication.

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by redzonerocker » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:55 pm

STEVE G wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:21 am
I didn't write the quote, it came from a mainstream automotive publication.
I know, i read the full report.
The point I was suggesting was, I would agree that the general idea and implementation of electric cars would be fairly straightforward.
The cost of the infrastructure and it's maintenance would be a whole new ball game, even if it's actually feasible to have everyone driving electric cars.
There is of course the added expense of the cost of a new electric car to a vast majority of drivers, the current UK government subsidy is £5k but an electric car is still approx £8k dearer than it's petrol equivalent. :?

I suppose over the course of the next decade we'll see how things progress in the electric car industry, the more the merrier if it's sustainable.
The current notion of banning all petrol/diesel cars within a timescale might be a bit ambitious though, most likely impossible in the poorer regions of the world.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by StevePIraq » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:00 pm

I guess this is similar to when cars first came on the scene, all the coach and horse set would have been saying, impossible, this will never happen, but guess what.......it did.

Did you know Cambodia is planning to ban motorbikes which are actually more polluting than cars.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by RCer » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:18 pm

StevePIraq wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:00 pm
I guess this is similar to when cars first came on the scene, all the coach and horse set would have been saying, impossible, this will never happen, but guess what.......it did.

Did you know Cambodia is planning to ban motorbikes which are actually more polluting than cars.
Yes, but back then the taxpayers weren't forced to pay for the conversion and then charged again when they want to use what they paid for.

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by StevePIraq » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 pm

I'm no tax payer and I ain't ever going to own of these new fangled horseless carriages because I don't live in the west and never want to go back there. Next thing they will be saying I don't need a person to walk in front of my car with a light.
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

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STEVE G
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by STEVE G » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:33 pm

StevePIraq wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:00 pm
I guess this is similar to when cars first came on the scene, all the coach and horse set would have been saying, impossible, this will never happen, but guess what.......it did.
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty - a fad." - The president of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford's lawyer, Horace Rackham, not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903.

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by RCer » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:50 pm

Didn't take long after UK announced the end of the internal combustion vehicle.

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

British Gas to raise electricity prices - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40787555

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by HHTel » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:53 pm

This should be of interest. A look back at attempts at electric cars since 1973 with the 'electric-powered' mini:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/enthusias ... li=BBoPWjQ

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by pharvey » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:29 pm

RCer wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:50 pm
British Gas to raise electricity prices - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40787555
Complete and utter to$$ers. I'm currently with them for both gas and electricity, but am (and have been) looking at options for a change.

I have Solar Panels installed, yet British Gas are delaying and delaying allowing me to register (where I can sell back to the grid). They overcharge for a pastime. :cuss: :banghead:
"You've got to get your first tackle in early, even if it's late". Ray Gravell :wink:

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redzonerocker
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by redzonerocker » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:11 am

pharvey wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:29 pm
Complete and utter to$$ers. I'm currently with them for both gas and electricity, but am (and have been) looking at options for a change.

I have Solar Panels installed, yet British Gas are delaying and delaying allowing me to register (where I can sell back to the grid). They overcharge for a pastime. :cuss: :banghead:
I would wait a short while before changing, the others will most likely follow suit shortly, that's the normal format.
Any opportunity to fleece the customers to boost the profits and shareholder stakes.
We were led to believe that privatised utility companies would provide competition, leading to cheaper bills . . . . :roll: :tsk:
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