Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

[STEVE G]

^The traditional car manufacturers slowly crept up the price of new cars during a prolonged period of low interest rates.
In the US, the average price of a new car went from something like 30,000USD to 50,000USD in ten years
Money isn't cheap anymore and the western car companies aren't going to survive unless they can seriously lower their costs.

[STEVE G]

The end of the oil age:
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/28/op ... e-oil-age/


"The 21st century will almost certainly be the Electricity Age. The cost of everything electric is plummeting while efficiency is rising. While this trend was pioneered in the United States, China (a vast country with almost no oil) has been the first to go all in on electrification, and is leading the world in 2024. Western manufacturers seem to have suddenly woken up to this reality and are scrambling to catch up. They are saddled with a lot of old technology and infrastructure as well as a vast and well funded PR campaign by the oil industry to slow the transition as much as possible. On one hand, western technology, its open society, and its vast diversity of cultures and ways of thinking are a huge creative advantage that China lacks. On the other hand, Chinese companies are busy building factories and export hubs all over the world while the United States is obsessed with arguments about whether solar power and electric cars are as good as fossil fuels. They are better, and much more importantly, they are cheaper. And the clock is ticking."

[Dannie Boy]

I’m in no way against EV cars, but the fact remains that model for model, EV cars are still more expensive than a car with an ICE - China may be selling cars that are cheaper, but until all the other major manufacturers do the same, it’s going to hinder take up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2/cb]

The end of the oil age:
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/28/op ... e-oil-age/


"The 21st century will almost certainly be the Electricity Age. The cost of everything electric is plummeting while efficiency is rising. While this trend was pioneered in the United States, China (a vast country with almost no oil) has been the first to go all in on electrification, and is leading the world in 2024. Western manufacturers seem to have suddenly woken up to this reality and are scrambling to catch up. They are saddled with a lot of old technology and infrastructure as well as a vast and well funded PR campaign by the oil industry to slow the transition as much as possible. On one hand, western technology, its open society, and its vast diversity of cultures and ways of thinking are a huge creative advantage that China lacks. On the other hand, Chinese companies are busy building factories and export hubs all over the world while the United States is obsessed with arguments about whether solar power and electric cars are as good as fossil fuels. They are better, and much more importantly, they are cheaper. And the clock is ticking."

Nope. This is propaganda from vested interests. In the UK, most heat their homes with natural gas because it’s relatively cheap and very efficient. Those who can’t, use oil or lpg. Also efficient but more expensive.
EVs are not the future, for many obvious reasons. Petrol hybrid cars & diesel hybrid buses have a lot of advantages and could be the future but batteries? I doubt it.

[pharvey]

The end of the oil age:
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/28/op ... e-oil-age/


"The 21st century will almost certainly be the Electricity Age. The cost of everything electric is plummeting while efficiency is rising. While this trend was pioneered in the United States, China (a vast country with almost no oil) has been the first to go all in on electrification, and is leading the world in 2024. Western manufacturers seem to have suddenly woken up to this reality and are scrambling to catch up. They are saddled with a lot of old technology and infrastructure as well as a vast and well funded PR campaign by the oil industry to slow the transition as much as possible. On one hand, western technology, its open society, and its vast diversity of cultures and ways of thinking are a huge creative advantage that China lacks. On the other hand, Chinese companies are busy building factories and export hubs all over the world while the United States is obsessed with arguments about whether solar power and electric cars are as good as fossil fuels. They are better, and much more importantly, they are cheaper. And the clock is ticking."

As the first statement, a century is a long time - hell, it's a hundred years or so "The cost of everything electric is plummeting"? No, not really - running costs certainly not, materials certainly not, efficiency perhaps.

As for the Chinese (government/big business) - the best? At what exactly? Manipulation, corruption, theft of technology, having a complete disregard for International Law? Of course they are top of the table - unfortunately money grabbing countries/governments and companies are so very quick to fall for them and go for short term riches and saying feck the future. Unfortunately, Western greed has already paid the price and we have allowed China a huge advantage. Where we should have been looking at "Chip Technology" of our own, we were quick to sell off looking for the "Fast Buck", all technology we have (in the UK) seems to be sold off for a pastime.

I am thankful however that there have been discoveries of "Rare Earth Elements/Metals" deposits in both Europe and the US, but to be fair China control some +/- 70%!! "Everything Electric" as you put it Steve, depends on REE. China will be able to control the market completely but quite frankly couldn't give a monkey's for the environment, quality or safety - MONEY IS GOD. Cities in China are huge, as is the population. Most people cannot grasp the true size of the country or the ease that EV charging stations are installed within the CITIES. The simple fact that the desperation for employment for many means lower employer costs, cheaper materials and along with government subsidies means a (easily achievable) lower selling price.

A simple fact in the UK, is that for one reason or another (both governments are to blame over the years), we are way behind - neither Wales or Scotland have anything like the money spent on infrastructure that England has, but all three are failing badly. We are being pushed to buy a vehicle that we can't afford to purchase and can't afford to run or run practically (street parking - not possible to charge at home).

Personally at this stage, I couldn't give a flying shite if Chinese EVs are cheaper - I wouldn't buy an EV. I need the guarantee that I can "fuel" my car to get me where I'm going. EV-wise that's not a cert. As I've said previously, Hybrid is the only way I'll go for my next car and seriously, that in itself is a few years away.

Some time ago I had an MG Midget which was our (well my) fun car for the summer - all good, but a suspect fuel gauge. Both the LHG and I loved going out for a drive in the countryside, miles away from anywhere - I always carried a 5lr tank that would get the car somewhere to refuel.... What do you do with an EV (when you're out an about miles from a "station")?

Apologies, need to step off my Soapbox as I now need a wee!

[STEVE G]

The cost of everything electric is plummeting"? No, not really - running costs certainly not, materials certainly not, efficiency perhaps.

In countries with abundant solar resources, the value of daytime electricity is heading down to practically nothing.
I realise that on here, many people obviously have the wealth to not care about the cost of fuel but I believe that, on a worldwide level, that is going to have a large impact.

[STEVE G]

Some time ago I had an MG Midget which was our (well my) fun car for the summer - all good, but a suspect fuel gauge. Both the LHG and I loved going out for a drive in the countryside, miles away from anywhere...

I had one of those back in the eighties and it always used to break down way before the tank was empty!

[pharvey]

Some time ago I had an MG Midget which was our (well my) fun car for the summer - all good, but a suspect fuel gauge. Both the LHG and I loved going out for a drive in the countryside, miles away from anywhere...

I had one of those back in the eighties and it always used to break down way before the tank was empty!

Ahh, but that was the joy - strange it always broke down near a field on a summer's day... And then I found a toolbox (no, really - clear minds). In all seriousness, you just highlighted another issue - I could quite easily fix the MG at the side of the road (within reason), but would be pretty clueless regards to modern EVs - I do have a decent understanding of the computers in modern cars/engines, but complete power packs minus an ICE? No....

It truly is another issue - who can "fix" your car at the side of the road? Let's not have the BS that EVs are sooooo reliable that they will never break down. Who fixes them when they do?

As an aside Steve - could you even get in and out of the MG now? I know I can't!!

[STEVE G]

As an aside Steve - could you even get in and out of the MG now? I know I can't!!

After a bit of hunting around, I found a couple of pictures.
I reckon I could still get in one but getting out might be a different thing!

[pharvey]

I've still got the "Hard +Top" and "Sport Exhaust" stashed... I really do need to get rid, memories.... Oh dear memories!

[EDIT] And this would be mine...
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MG-1.jpg (129.37 KiB) Viewed 1598 times

MG-2.jpg (111.74 KiB) Viewed 1598 times

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Anywho, obviously not an EV, so....

[STEVE G]

^ Very nice!

Back on topic:

Tesla in talks with Thailand for production facility, says government official
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 024-03-04/

[pharvey]

Always thought it was a bit of a non-stater TBH. There was a bit of a joke going around that the reason the concept was flushed, is that Apple forgot the car needed "Windows"!!
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iCar-Concept.png (299.46 KiB) Viewed 1353 times

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Apple Car might have been vrooming great or a wreck, but now we’ll never know, because it’s been crushed and sent to the tech scrapyard in the sky

"Apple Car is dead. Project Titan has been scrapped. There will be no Apple Car keynote, because Apple execs decided CarPlay rather than CarPain is the way forward.

So bear that in mind when reading about what Apple did or didn’t do, or what it might or might not do with car tech and insights it may or may not currently possess. That said, if Apple really did throw billions at trying to make a car and has now decided not to, that feels like the right call.

Apple needs focus. A car is a distraction. Cars are low profit (not very Apple) and high risk – cars crashing is way worse for your company than, say, personal computers crashing. And you might argue a car is a perverse project to keep alive in a world where Apple has pledged to be carbon neutral six years from now. So: good that Apple isn’t afraid of making big plays. Also good Apple will scrap such projects if they won’t meet the company’s own high expectations.

However, this does mean we won’t get an Apple Car keynote. And that’s a pity, because it would have been spectacular…"

More @ https://www.stuff.tv/features/the-apple ... UI,41X8L,1

[STEVE G]

Jaguar Ending Production of Gas Cars Entirely before New EVs Arrive
Production for Jaguar's internal-combustion vehicles—the F-Pace, E-Pace, and XF—will end in June in preparation for the arrival of three new electric vehicles.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6007 ... on-ending/

[pharvey]

Jaguar Ending Production of Gas Cars Entirely before New EVs Arrive
Production for Jaguar's internal-combustion vehicles—the F-Pace, E-Pace, and XF—will end in June in preparation for the arrival of three new electric vehicles.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6007 ... on-ending/

Without sounding like a tw@t (yes guys, I know it's normal ): -

Number ONE - Jag is no longer British. They are owned by the scum that is TATA. You know, the one's who take UK Government handouts for a pastime whilst crippling the local and national economy.
TWO - XF is a diesel and likely screwed, F-PACE a small SUV again screwed but to be fair it was/is crap as is the E-PACE.

The sell out by Jaguar (and the UK government allowing and pushing all) was criminal. Firstly to Ford, who admittedly put in a more reliable engine. but pretty much fcuked everything else up - then selling out completely when realising their mistake!!

{EDIT] I have said previously and will say again now - I am by no means against EVs, I AM pro ICE simply because I can rely on them, fix them (to a degree) and know I can refuel them pretty much everywhere within a 48Km/30 Mile radius (maths good enough for you Nereus" ). There is of course the Environmental issue - EVs are given the Golden Crown... Absolute b*ll*cks IMHO, simply look at the damage they actually do (PLEASE).

[Nereus]

I can refuel them pretty much everywhere within a 48Km/30 Mile radius (maths good enough for you Nereus" ).

Good boy, near enough! And so is your rant! Once it is figured out how Nikola Tesla was going to transmit electicity through the air without wires, then we can all drive an EV!