Hua Hin Police Traffic Stops

[Big Boy]

Technically, you don't need an IDL. You are quite legal using your Brit licence but the average cop wouldn't know that.

I keep hearing people say that, but every official document I've read (don't have one to hand) has stated otherwise. Do you have any point of reference for that statement please?

[phartley58]

Technically, you don't need an IDL. You are quite legal using your Brit licence but the average cop wouldn't know that.

Can't give you the links right now but when I was swotting up on what I needed for my Thai Licence renewal a couple of weeks ago I read a number of times that you can only legally use your UL Licence for your first 60 days...

[robcar]

I got fined 400baht by the local plod for not having an IDL. I had UK license but they were not interested in that, they only wanted to see IDL. I now have Thai License for both bike and car just to be on the safe side :-)

[HHTel]

The licence needs to have been issued by a country that has a treaty with the Thai government allowing the mutual acceptance of driving licences. Most countries, including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the USA have this agreement with Thailand under the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic or the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.

Check it out.

[Big Boy]

OK, I've had a look, but the recognition still seems to be time limited, and much reference is made to the International Driving Permit. As with many such large documents, it is very open to (mis) interpretation. I certainly wouldn't want to be using this in an argument with a roadside traffic policeman in an attempt to save 200 Baht.

Is there any simple layman's document that gives a definitive statement that a UK licence is valid to drive on the roads here in Thailand?

[HHTel]

Refer to Chapter V of the Geneva Convention.

Yes, as with an IDL, there is a time limit to it's use. The IDL (which is only valid if accompanied by a domestic licence in the country of issue) 'can' be used for up to 3 years or the expiry of the domestic licence whichever is the earlier.

When showing an IDL, the authority can demand to see the domestic licence it was drawn on. No domestic licence then the IDL is invalid.

Think about it. If you licence from back home wasn't recognised here, you wouldn't be able to draw a Thai licence based upon your own domestic licence.

Yes, I have argued it (just for the hell of it and had time to spare) and once my argument was agreed by a higher authority, then they back off with a half hearted apology.

I agree, a couple of hundred baht gets rid of the hassle and you're on your way quickly. Sometimes I argue a principle when I know that I'm right.

[Big Boy]

It says the holder of the licence

- must prove their competence to drive to the competent authority of the Contracting State.

- at the discretion of the Contracting State there may be a need for an IDP.

- etc

I see nothing that says the UK licence can be used in it's own right, without first being validated or supported by the IDP.

[Dannie Boy]

I read (on the other forum) that residents, by which I guess they mean non-tourists, need to obtain a Thai driving licence rather than use either an IDP or a home country licence. There obviously needs to be a certain amount of time given to be able to obtain the Thai licence and it didn't say how long, but I would work on three months.

[Bristolian]

^^ I agree or at least I would agree 15 years ago. When I first came to Thailand my company advised that I could drive in Thailand, as a resident, for 3 months with a UK driving licence AND IDP together. After 3 months, i would need a Thai Driving Licence.

At that time I was also told that a UK driving licence alone was not valid for the 3 months, without a valid IDP to back it up.

Maybe the laws have changed in the meantime.

[HHTel]

Big boy wrote:
"must prove their competence to drive to the competent authority of the Contracting State."

Of course. A UK driving licence proves that you are competent with the contracting state ...i.e. the UK.

I know we are talking Hua Hin. But my first year was in BKK and the cops there are a little bit better informed. Although I had an IDP (it's not a licence - IDL -it's a permit.), I always showed my British licence and never had a problem. The first time I showed my IDP was when I went to Pranburi to draw a Thai licence. They wouldn't accept an international but were happy with a UK licence. No test whatsoever and the licence issued within an hour.

Just because the treaty was signed some time ago and varied times by other countries, that doesn't make it any different than if the treaty was signed yesterday. Treaties are not leases and do not have a valid expiry date!

The 1968 convention (as amended in 2011)[edit]
The main regulations about driving licences are in Annex 6 (domestic driving permit) and Annex 7 (international driving permit). The currently active version of those is in force in each Contracting Party since no later than 29 March 2011 (Article 43).

Article 41 of the Convention describes requirements for driving licences. Key of those are:

every driver of a motor vehicle must hold a driving licence;
driving licences can be issued only after passing theoretical and practical exams, which are regulated by each country;
Contracting Parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories:
domestic driving licence conforms to the provisions of Annex 6 to the Convention;
international driving licence conforms to the provisions of Annex 7 to the Convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driving licence;
driving licences issued by a Contracting Party shall be recognised in the territory of another Contracting Party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder;
all of the above does not apply to learner-driver licences;
the period of validity of an international licence shall be either no more than three years after the date of issue or until the date of expiry of the domestic driving licence, whichever is earlier;
Contracting Parties may refuse to recognise the validity of driving licences for persons under eighteen or, for categories C, D, CE and DE, under twenty one;
an international driving licence shall only be issued by the Contracting Party in whose territory the holder has his normal residence and that issued the domestic driving licence or that recognised the driving licence issued by another Contracting Party; it shall not be valid for use in that territory.

IT'S A FACT.

N.B. I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet but if that's the way it seems then so be it. For the last couple of years, I have been paid to give legal advice to expats in Thailand. Am I a lawyer --- of course not. However, I've probably read ever ACT of law here of which there are dozens and constantly being updated.
The Condominium Act is the one I probably find most confusing. I am best at divorce, property, custody, and most definately traffic laws. In that respect, I probably know more about traffic laws that the average cop who works within a fairly narrow window on his day by day duties. Only a few years ago, 12% of the traffic cops in Bangkok failed a rudimentary exam. Their 'punishment'? - they could work as normal but were unable to issue traffic tickets.!

[STEVE G]

In that respect, I probably know more about traffic laws that the average cop who works within a fairly narrow window on his day by day duties.....

I think most of them only know:

1) every driver of a motor vehicle must hold out 200bt.

[Big Boy]

Fact or not, I am not convinced, and due the ease of obtaining a Thai licence, it makes sense to me to play the game.

Based on what I read yesterday in Chapter V of the Geneva Convention, my recommendation to friends will still be obtain an IDP and convert to a Thai licence asap, which is probably the way most expats have gone.

[HHTel]

I agree entirely, BB. Getting an IDP is the way to go in the short term and a Thai licence to follow. Just making a point.

[Dannie Boy]

I agree entirely, BB. Getting an IDP is the way to go in the short term and a Thai licence to follow. Just making a point.

Except, to get a Thai driving licence don't you need a home country licence rather than an IDP, maybe they will both work but I got my Thai licence just using my UK licence.

[Big Boy]

That's OK if you have a UK licence. If for example you have an EEC licence issued outside of the UK, they insist on the licence being accompanied by an IDP. If it isn't, you have to get the licence notarised.