Possible leak from incoming water

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Gardberg
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Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Gardberg » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:03 pm

We suspect a leak somewere in the waterpipe going into the house since the pump dont keep the pressure. Can anyone recomend a good problem solver in Hua Hin?
We would like to pressure test the pipe in the house and film it from the inside to find the leak.
Any plumber in Europe know that but who can do that in Hua Hin?

Thank you

HHTel
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by HHTel » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:43 pm

A good indication of a leak is if the pump switches on momentarily every so often when nothing is being used. Unless the pump is faulty, it will maintain the pressure leak or not. (which is why it keeps switching on when there's a leak).

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Bluesky » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:06 pm

What HHTel has advised is correct and the house water pump can be used as a surrogate pressure test, however I would suggest going through a process of elimination for other possibilities. Firstly close off the stopcock for the town water for two reasons, if there is a faulty non return valve to town water it will eliminate that prospect and secondly it will stop the town water pressure from overriding the low pressure switch for the pump. Next, close off the stop cocks to toilet cisterns (make sure they are full) and also check that the water is not returning to your water tank as a result of a faulty pump valve. If the pump continue to cycle the problem may well be a water leak. If however the pump remains de activated firstly open toilet cistern stop cocks individually and see if the pump activates, if so it may be a leaky flush valve or leaky seal at the base of the cistern where it connects to the pan. If it does not activate the pump reopen the town water mains, If the the pump starts the may possibly be a faulty non return valve.

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johnjar
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by johnjar » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:20 pm

I have had leaking problems also pump switches on off frequently if it's the pump its usually in pressure switch which will visually leak from seal when running where it is bolted to flange on pressure tank they can be replaced parts from local hardware shops who will help you find one, if not leaking , the next usual suspect is the toilet cistern( while pump running you can here it leaking through cistern flapper valve which on end of float ball) they also get crud from town water btwn float seal and down pipe thingy they just need shutting off valve to cistern or cisterns take them out and clean , i,me no plumber but these things are all plastic and easy to remove and replace with a bit of effort...Hope this helps :)

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Nereus » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:43 pm

Firstly close off the stopcock for the town water for two reasons, if there is a faulty non return valve to town water it will eliminate that prospect and secondly it will stop the town water pressure from overriding the low pressure switch for the pump.
Sorry mate, but it is both illegal and very bad practice to have a pump with the suction connected directly to the mains supply. The supply should ALWAYS be via some form of settling tank.
We suspect a leak somewere in the waterpipe going into the house since the pump dont keep the pressure.
This is a common problem here and there are several threads about it on this Forum. Most times it can be traced to where the PVC pipe from the pump passes under a wall of the house, and settling over a period of time will fracture the pipe. IF the pump has an isolating valve on the outlet by all means close it and see what happens. If the leak is underground it can be a nightmare tying to find it.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!

HHTel
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by HHTel » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:03 pm

Sorry mate, but it is both illegal and very bad practice to have a pump with the suction connected directly to the mains supply. The supply should ALWAYS be via some form of settling tank.
You're probably right but I can show you many instances where the pump is suctioned directly to the main supply, especially in BKK. Always used as the solution to low pressure by being at the end of a line. I think you'll find it common practice in the Thai villages.

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Gardberg » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:26 am

Thank you for all the suggestions.

We will try to figure out where the leak are by closing one line at the time and checking all toilets and valves.
We have one pipe for the garden and one to the house on the same pump, so that should be easy to figure out which line is leaking. Still hoping it could be the pump though....

If its under the house can you reline the pipes as you can with outgoing pipes who has bigger dimension? Otherwise I guess you have two choices, new pipes or change the old pipe if you know where they are??

Pump is now off so no more water leaking....will start investigating when we come down in November.

Thanks again

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Nereus » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:02 am

HHTel wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:03 pm
Sorry mate, but it is both illegal and very bad practice to have a pump with the suction connected directly to the mains supply. The supply should ALWAYS be via some form of settling tank.
You're probably right but I can show you many instances where the pump is suctioned directly to the main supply, especially in BKK. Always used as the solution to low pressure by being at the end of a line. I think you'll find it common practice in the Thai villages.
Hmm, there are many places, particularly in Hua Hin, where the pump would be sucking polluted air for 3 or 4 months of the year, as there is no water supply.

Only been in a couple of Villages in the north, and they did not have a Government water supply, all from local wells.
In Bangkok it may of been the case 20 years ago or so, but not now.

As for the OPs pump, I am willing to bet it does not have any check valve on the suction side, and if the internal discharge check valve has failed the pressure tank would immediately push the water back to the suction line within about 30 seconds, causing the pump to short cycle, but he does not say how long it takes to bleed off. As he also does not say if he has a storage tank.

To answer the posters question regarding lining the existing pipes; no it is not possible with the size piping used in domestic installations. Many domestic water "plumbing" here does not even follow basic common sense methods, such as stop valves after the pump, especially where there is more than one "circuit".
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HHTel
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by HHTel » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:31 am

In Bangkok it may of been the case 20 years ago or so, but not now.
It is very much the case now. To quote one example, my wife's family live in Nongkaam. Their house was about 3 quarters down the water pipe. (tends to be a single pipe down each side of each soi). The further down the line, the pressure drops especially when households ahead of you have fitted water pumps thereby reducing the pressure for people further down. To combat this, her family had a pump fitted to 'suck the mains water'. This was around 10 years ago and nothing has changed.
I could give you other examples and all in BKK.

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Gardberg » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:33 pm

Yes we have a storage tank and a sandfilter.

Reg
Kim

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by crazy88 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:50 pm

If the pump is off and the leaking has stopped then guess which side of the circuit the leak is :roll: I take it by "leak" you mean the holding tank is dropping. If you shut off the holding tank and check your water meter is not spinning then you do not have a leak that side. If the pump does not kick in every now and again then it is a problem with the pump possibly. The main culprits of pressure drop are the pump itself, showers and taps scaled up, the tank has emptied or had sediment filled water put in it which runs through the system. If your sand filter is clogged then maybe you need to change the media. Even with regular backwashing they clog up. If it is the filter then change to glass media. As for a plumber that can fault find and repair just ask at any builders merchant and they will give you contact numbers. Mine are all busy.

Crazy 88

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johnjar
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by johnjar » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:48 pm

A bit off subject ...Had a bit of dilemma this morning the plastic washing machine water inlet ball valve (from main supply) broke (drowning me) as I pulled open valve handle open before starting wash cycle. So turned off main supply then sawed off supply side and cut plastic hose connections to washing machine. Went around looking at hardware supply shops that I know with "No have this and No have that "as some of parts were specific for washing machines and not standard etc , then the last hardware shop I visited on Petkasem road about 30 meters north of Soi 56 on the west side , I shown the girl the parts needed to replace, and in a jiffy she found all parts plus glue and Teflon needed , just like that, cost couple hundred baht , took me 10 minutes to assemble on supply side and washing machine side, then everything right as nine pence again.

If any would be plumbers in same dilemma..Thats the shop to go...Hope this helps :D

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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Hnlwayne » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:25 am

Just moved into our new six year old house and having similar problem. Every once in a while the pump comes on. If someone can recommend a professional to find the problem it would be much appreciated. Otherwise I should check all the toilets first to try and locate a leak? Advice appreciated.

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johnjar
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by johnjar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:58 am

Hnlwayne..If you can,t find the leak I would ask the landlord if your renting and they,ll probably be only too happy to help get it fixed,or if you go the shop above and ask them to help find a plumber as they have tradesmen in and out of their shop all the time , maybe even have a resident plumber :)

Hnlwayne
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Re: Possible leak from incoming water

Post by Hnlwayne » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:49 am

Thanks, it is our own place so will have to sort it out myself. Overseas right now but eill follow your suggestion when I get back. Thanks again.

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