Thought I ought to post this in a different thread as I have already contributed to TTM's 'Dream or Nightmare' thread going off topic once and didn't want to do it again!
Anyway, the thread got me thinking - (too late now I hear you cry) - and brought me to consider a potential problem that no-one has picked up on yet for those of us who have done or are considering the 'house in wife's name' thing. Given, as Buksida has already posted, that one's 'look kreung' cannot own property till they are 16, what happens if in the intervening time, God forbid, your wife dies? Does anybody have any idea on what the rules are on disposal of the property? We know it can't come to the farang husband and presumably it can't come to the kid if they are under 16. Next time we are in Thailand we will be seeing a lawyer about this and other things and will post my findings after that but would be interested in anyone's thoughts/experiences before then.
Over to you guys...
Property owned by Thai wives
Good question. I don't know, but presumably, depending on the wife's will, the property could be held in trust for the child until they were of legal age.
If that's the case, it would be important to choose the trustees and the wording of the will carefully.
It might not be your wife's intention that the whole of her issan family turn up on your doorstep should this unfortunate situation occur. It did to someone in HH last year.
If that's the case, it would be important to choose the trustees and the wording of the will carefully.
It might not be your wife's intention that the whole of her issan family turn up on your doorstep should this unfortunate situation occur. It did to someone in HH last year.
Hey Jamie,
I have some general information, which can maybe help.
Thai law of custody:
As long as a child is under age, it's subordinate to the parental force.
This is entitled to both parents equally.
If a parental part deceased; only the alive part can carry out the parental force.
A new marriage partner does not possess legally the parental force over the stepchildren.
The person, who has the parental force, has the following rights:
- He/She can decide on the residence of the child.
- He/She can punish the child for disciplinary reasons appropriately.
- He/She can require from the child to work, which correspond with the age and abilities.
- He/She can require the return of the child from every person who has taken it illegally to his or her.
- He/She can administer the property of the child.
The owner of the parental force has legally no right, to sell property of the child, to exchange, to lend or pawn.
The approval of a court is necessary basically for such activities.
If the person entitled to education injures these duties as can be proved, a court can take the education authorization away.
Thai law of succession:
Basically the direct descendants stand at the top of the hereditary ranking list, parents are listed only, secondly.
It's important to know that relatives of the preceding placing exclude relatives of the following placing.
An exception exists in Thailand only in view of the parents of the testator.
These are not excluded by the hereditary result, even if the testator has descendants.
Successors 1st order: children;
Successors 2nd order: parents of the testator;
Successors 3rd order: brothers and sisters of the testator;
Successors 4th order: half-brothers;
Successors 5th order: grandparents of the testator;
Successors 6th order: uncle and aunts.
Calculation of the inheritances, i.e.:
If the testator had two descendants and the parents of the testator still are alive, there are 5 equal successors.
Every successor receives 1/5 of the whole left property
(Spouse + 2 descendants + father and mother of the testator= 5 successors).
For the case that the parents have passed away the left property is steadily split between the surviving spouse and his descendants.
If the parents of the testator have passed away and there aren't also any descendants, the surviving spouse receives basically half of the left property.
Other half is distributed under the brothers and sisters of the testator.
In the order to half-brothers, grandparents, uncle and aunts of the testator the surviving spouse receives 2/3 of the left property.
According to the Thai law a person must be named to have the right to execute the last will of the testator.
This person must be named in writing by the testator.
Otherwise the court will name a person to the execution of this right.
For more and special details it's recommend to contact a lawyer.
A very trustworthy lawyer's office appears to me the following one to be:
VIMAMI Consulting, Co. Ltd.
Bangkok Office, Vanissa Tower, 24th floor
29 Soi Chidlom,
Lumpini, Phathumwan
Bangkok 10330
Tel. 02 657 1082
Fax 02 657 1083
The main office is in Phuket, but they have also some branches in Pattaya , Chiang Mai, and Bangkok (as shown above).
A link to the web-side is the following:
http://www.vimami.com/
Best regards!
I have some general information, which can maybe help.
Thai law of custody:
As long as a child is under age, it's subordinate to the parental force.
This is entitled to both parents equally.
If a parental part deceased; only the alive part can carry out the parental force.
A new marriage partner does not possess legally the parental force over the stepchildren.
The person, who has the parental force, has the following rights:
- He/She can decide on the residence of the child.
- He/She can punish the child for disciplinary reasons appropriately.
- He/She can require from the child to work, which correspond with the age and abilities.
- He/She can require the return of the child from every person who has taken it illegally to his or her.
- He/She can administer the property of the child.
The owner of the parental force has legally no right, to sell property of the child, to exchange, to lend or pawn.
The approval of a court is necessary basically for such activities.
If the person entitled to education injures these duties as can be proved, a court can take the education authorization away.
Thai law of succession:
Basically the direct descendants stand at the top of the hereditary ranking list, parents are listed only, secondly.
It's important to know that relatives of the preceding placing exclude relatives of the following placing.
An exception exists in Thailand only in view of the parents of the testator.
These are not excluded by the hereditary result, even if the testator has descendants.
Successors 1st order: children;
Successors 2nd order: parents of the testator;
Successors 3rd order: brothers and sisters of the testator;
Successors 4th order: half-brothers;
Successors 5th order: grandparents of the testator;
Successors 6th order: uncle and aunts.
Calculation of the inheritances, i.e.:
If the testator had two descendants and the parents of the testator still are alive, there are 5 equal successors.
Every successor receives 1/5 of the whole left property
(Spouse + 2 descendants + father and mother of the testator= 5 successors).
For the case that the parents have passed away the left property is steadily split between the surviving spouse and his descendants.
If the parents of the testator have passed away and there aren't also any descendants, the surviving spouse receives basically half of the left property.
Other half is distributed under the brothers and sisters of the testator.
In the order to half-brothers, grandparents, uncle and aunts of the testator the surviving spouse receives 2/3 of the left property.
According to the Thai law a person must be named to have the right to execute the last will of the testator.
This person must be named in writing by the testator.
Otherwise the court will name a person to the execution of this right.
For more and special details it's recommend to contact a lawyer.
A very trustworthy lawyer's office appears to me the following one to be:
VIMAMI Consulting, Co. Ltd.
Bangkok Office, Vanissa Tower, 24th floor
29 Soi Chidlom,
Lumpini, Phathumwan
Bangkok 10330
Tel. 02 657 1082
Fax 02 657 1083
The main office is in Phuket, but they have also some branches in Pattaya , Chiang Mai, and Bangkok (as shown above).
A link to the web-side is the following:
http://www.vimami.com/
Best regards!
Propert owned by Thai wives
Whe you can rent a property for 6% of the capital value why buy???. Leave your capital in a U.K offshore bank paying 5% or more. Take into account that you do not maintain or insure the property,can move house at short notice. Capital is !00% secure and can be moved without problem.
If the worst happend and your wife/partner died you do not need to be a lawyer to protect your assets.
If you divorce from your wife and you have married in Thailand ( NUMBER ONE RULE) your assets are not under threat because they are not in Thailand.
If the worst happend and your wife/partner died you do not need to be a lawyer to protect your assets.
If you divorce from your wife and you have married in Thailand ( NUMBER ONE RULE) your assets are not under threat because they are not in Thailand.
To answer your question, everyone will have their own reasons for buying. In my own case I don't live in Thailand. So, having spent a number of family holidays carting kids around Bangkok and various other places for a couple of weeks or more at a time and then having to return to the cramped confines of a hotel room for 'down-time' we decided we needed a proper base. It was either that or spending more time with the in-laws, which is not much of a holiday for me. When we were looking for our house, short term holiday lets in our price range were thin on the ground in Hua Hin. It has been a great move as far as our family holidays and the kids are concerned because the quality (& size) of accommodation we have for our holidays now far exceeds anything similar we could afford as a family in hotels. There is much more opportunity for chilling out and the kids can safely do their own thing, playing with the neighbours kids etc. There is room for the in-laws to come to us so I don't have to make the trip up country. We have complete freedom to come and go as we please, using the house as a base to explore. The holiday just feels safer & more relaxed - I find carting kids around in Thailand is stressful, whatever people say about it being a great place for kids - traffic is just one constant danger for small children. However, if you coldly analyse it in pure investment terms perhaps it doesn't make perfect sense.... but then what does in Thailand?? And, as we stray further off topic I'll leave it there!
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tuktukmike
- Guru
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:02 am
Hi Jamie,
I remember when we met, it was beacause richard told me a good friend of his was making a big mistake buying a house in his wifes name.
At the time i told him that this was none of my buisness as i did not even know you, I felt he was putting me in an awkward situation and you know the rest.
What i cant understand is that at that time i told you it would be best to get proper legal advice on the said purchase but you implied that there was no need as you had full trust in your wife and knew what you were doing.
I also am no legal expert but i do recall an event recently where an englishman had bought a house and put it in his young sons name.
When he was away one time in England his wife as gaurdian sold the house and vanished, so always take good legal advice before commiting to anything out here, Horse and stable door springs to mind.
As to Miked comments, i could not agree more.
I rent a large brand new house for 8000bht a month so why on earth would i ever pay 3.5million or more to own somthing smaller.
You also have to work out how often you are using your house per year, i would guess that maybe 4-6 weeks anually, was it worth it.
Anyway jamie i agree with Hogus, when you get back get good legal advice and buy me a beer you tight Welshman.
Mike
I remember when we met, it was beacause richard told me a good friend of his was making a big mistake buying a house in his wifes name.
At the time i told him that this was none of my buisness as i did not even know you, I felt he was putting me in an awkward situation and you know the rest.
What i cant understand is that at that time i told you it would be best to get proper legal advice on the said purchase but you implied that there was no need as you had full trust in your wife and knew what you were doing.
I also am no legal expert but i do recall an event recently where an englishman had bought a house and put it in his young sons name.
When he was away one time in England his wife as gaurdian sold the house and vanished, so always take good legal advice before commiting to anything out here, Horse and stable door springs to mind.
As to Miked comments, i could not agree more.
I rent a large brand new house for 8000bht a month so why on earth would i ever pay 3.5million or more to own somthing smaller.
You also have to work out how often you are using your house per year, i would guess that maybe 4-6 weeks anually, was it worth it.
Anyway jamie i agree with Hogus, when you get back get good legal advice and buy me a beer you tight Welshman.
Mike
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tuktukmike
- Guru
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:02 am
Hi Mike,
I have paid way under 3.5 million baht for our house - remember it was only worth 10% of the value of the house in the valleys!
The trust thing still holds true and is not really relevant to my original post in this thread but I must admit, I hadn't considered the possibility of my wife dying on me - ostrich method of situation analysis - anymore than I like to think about my own demise. Hence me starting this thread.
I can remember chunks of our conversation too - I think we discussed what you have referred to elsewhere on this forum as the need for a certain degree of risk assessment and I have posted my views on that elsewhere as well i.e the possibility that one may have to write off one's 'investment.' But you also advised me to consider buying land and build my own property because I could get something bigger, better and cheaper - at the time you were considering doing it yourself but judging from your recent posts on this subject you have obviously changed your mind.... presumably having sought proper legal advice
!
For those of us not able or willing to spend the necessary time in Thailand to embark on such a venture, it is not really an option - so the off the shelf development deals are always going to be attractive, despite all the attendant problems, which we need not go into here.
As for whether it was worth it, well as far as making my own stay in Thailand immeasurably more agreeable for me, for the reasons posted above then it was definitely worth it and that is what it is all about for me. If we didn't have kids I don't think it would have been so attractive an option but with the kids it makes a big difference. Overall, buying the house did require a big leap of faith because I didn't take much of the conflicting advice I was being offered from all quarters and to date the decision seems justified. If the situation changes I will gladly eat humble pie but at the moment it's not on the menu!
Incidentally, I have just booked to return in late October, so get your drinking boots ready! Which reminds me - I really need to catch up with Richard too as we didn't get to meet up on my last trip.
Jaime
I have paid way under 3.5 million baht for our house - remember it was only worth 10% of the value of the house in the valleys!
The trust thing still holds true and is not really relevant to my original post in this thread but I must admit, I hadn't considered the possibility of my wife dying on me - ostrich method of situation analysis - anymore than I like to think about my own demise. Hence me starting this thread.
I can remember chunks of our conversation too - I think we discussed what you have referred to elsewhere on this forum as the need for a certain degree of risk assessment and I have posted my views on that elsewhere as well i.e the possibility that one may have to write off one's 'investment.' But you also advised me to consider buying land and build my own property because I could get something bigger, better and cheaper - at the time you were considering doing it yourself but judging from your recent posts on this subject you have obviously changed your mind.... presumably having sought proper legal advice
!For those of us not able or willing to spend the necessary time in Thailand to embark on such a venture, it is not really an option - so the off the shelf development deals are always going to be attractive, despite all the attendant problems, which we need not go into here.
As for whether it was worth it, well as far as making my own stay in Thailand immeasurably more agreeable for me, for the reasons posted above then it was definitely worth it and that is what it is all about for me. If we didn't have kids I don't think it would have been so attractive an option but with the kids it makes a big difference. Overall, buying the house did require a big leap of faith because I didn't take much of the conflicting advice I was being offered from all quarters and to date the decision seems justified. If the situation changes I will gladly eat humble pie but at the moment it's not on the menu!
Incidentally, I have just booked to return in late October, so get your drinking boots ready!
Which reminds me - I really need to catch up with Richard too as we didn't get to meet up on my last trip.Jaime
Last edited by Jaime on Sun May 22, 2005 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tuktukmike
- Guru
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:02 am
Hi Jamie,
Jaergermeister always reminds me of Obridges a cough medicine my parents used to give me when i was a kid.
But Hogus loves it, what can i say ,
Never ever ever again, i dont want this sort of poison.
But Hogus can be very persuasive so watch out. especially if he is with Rosso another mad Jaergermister drinker.
At least the new Irish bar will be open when you get back so you can refresh with a nice cold Guiness.
Mike.
Jaergermeister always reminds me of Obridges a cough medicine my parents used to give me when i was a kid.
But Hogus loves it, what can i say ,
Never ever ever again, i dont want this sort of poison.
But Hogus can be very persuasive so watch out. especially if he is with Rosso another mad Jaergermister drinker.
At least the new Irish bar will be open when you get back so you can refresh with a nice cold Guiness.
Mike.
