Child abduction

[2dandan]

Sarge - why do I need an agenda?

It's a simple matter of debate and I've stated my reasons for my side of the debate. Maybe you operate to agendas but I don't.

Dawn - first of all you want me to do the impossible and show proof that nothing has happened and now you say I've got the idea that "I'd convinced everyone". Where did I say that?

The point I'd like to add is that rather than me having to convince you that the mass abductions did not happen, with the exception of Jockey's comments which have been reasonable, measured and providing a degree of proof that an incident in Cha am did take place, Sarge et al have failed to convince me and probably others that it did happen.

They merely keep repeating themselves.

The Emperors new clothes springs to mind.

[DawnHRD]

I think that several of my points have been accepted and in particular, no mass kidnap of children took place. Here

If that is the outcome of this debate, then I'm happy because a) the crime was not committed and b) the rumours and comments that it did, have been accepted as being untrue/exaggerated. Here


The debate has achieved it's objective. The rumours have been discussed and evidence has now been offered. Here

It highlighted the issue, that these outrageous allegations need to be challenged and not merely accepted as facts. There's a big difference between 16 children being abducted and 1 child being abducted. And here

I've highlighted the areas where I believe you have stated that we have agreed with your points. If that is not the case, then apologies for misunderstanding, but perhaps the clarity of the points you are making is at fault.

[sargeant]

Convince me that my police sargeant & (now)Captain neighbours are personally telling me lies
convince me the FACT that the police went to every school in hua hin did it just to scare the crap out of the population
Explain IN DETAIL please why if it never happened there has been no repercussions from the population for being hoaxed (it seems the press are not interested in that story either)
Explain to me why you only refer to Cha - Am and dont even mention the 4 kids from Hua Hin

you seem quick to ask questions but fail to give answers

Until that happens i must believe you have an agenda although god knows what it is or WHY

It is hardly a debate thousands believe/know it happened you dont up to you

[2dandan]

Dawn also asks questions, but doesn't answer them.

Where did I say I had convinced everyone?. Answer that. Maybe I've convinced everyone except you and Sarge.

Sarge. You amaze me.

You're trying to convince me that 16 kids have been kidnapped.

You then ask, if it didn't happen, why the population have not taken repercussions.

Surely the population would be taking repercussions, asking questions, demanding answers, demanding arrests and most importantly demanding their children back if it HAD happened.

They aren't, so draw your own conclusions.

Oh, I forgot, you already do that.

I have previously told you that I don't work to agendas and don't have an agenda.

I have explained my reasons for having this debate. You choose to ignore these facts, the same as you ignore every other fact or statement.

You don't believe that, so to keep you happy I'll say, Yeh you're right, I'm working to an agenda.

There, are you happy now. :-)

[Winkie]

2dandan

You don't have me convinced, that's for certain.

This issue is a very delicate one, but to ask Dawn or Sarge to give specific answers to certain questions is nonsensical.

I think its wise for all, especially parents to realise that there is (most likely) a percentage of truth in this situation (If its 16 kids or 3 kids, or 1 kid, does that make it less serious?). If its 30% true or 100% true what's the difference?

As a parent, who lives in Cha Am, I appreciate very much to now of these stories. I can choose to react the way I see fit to do so. Assuming that the whole story is complete BS as you claim, then all that happens to me is I appear to be a little pranoid about my children's safety.

Assuming some truth in the claim, as I think most believe, I can act accordingly and maybe save the lives of my children or others.

Please realise that this is how news is transmitted, by word of mouth. Its not going to be widely reported by any organisation, press, UNICEF or the Tufty Club. Its a too common event, and always has been.

My wife's sister (not Thai, but a neighbouring Asian) was abducted at a young age, and fortunately recovered after about 1 week, so I know from within my own family how these things can happen.

So, please, sit back, and accept that these things are not only possible, but are probable too.

[2dandan]

Winkie,

Thanks for your input.

My comment about convincing everybody was tongue in cheek and a response to Dawns post.

I've been persuaded and have previously conceded that there has probably been an incident in Cha am, but still not sure about Hua Hin though.

I can't accept that these alleged child abductions are as common as people say. They do not seem to be documented anywhere and as a result, I can't accept the allegation as stated.

That's my choice.

You and everybody else can accept it if you want, but I tend to look for some corroboration - just the same as every efficient law enforcement agency in the world would.

Just because a rumour starts and then spreads like wildfire doesn't mean that it's true.

That's my last word on the subject.

I need to pack my bags now as I'm heading back to wonderful Hua Hin on holiday tomorrow.

Thanks Sarge, Dawn, Jockey and all for the patter.

[sargeant]

This thread for me is finished i have asked questions which are patently and ignorantly ignored or twisted i have answered and supplied names and actions which are FACT so has jockey from people who are/were involved in it

The simple answer as to denegrating this incident as a hoax means parents kids and the public will lower their guard and who gains


......................................bluddy CHILD PREDATORS

Jeez some people are words fail me

[dane48]

Conc. the original poster - ugly business indeed, no matter where and how.
Conc. the following discussion with DanDan2 - many interesting points from both sides, and the following is not an attempt to side with anybody, as I think all the opinions are more or less valid on a sensitive matter as this.
I came across this in the newsgroup soc.culture.thai - the source seems to be valid - but what do I know ?


>SNIP

SDHS and relevant agencies attempt to curb cases of kidnapped children
during school holidays

The Ministry of Social Development and Human Security (SDHS) conducted
a joint meeting with the Justice Ministry and Royal Thai Police to
prevent child kidnapping during the school holidays.

The Permanent Secretary of Social Development and Human Security
(SDHS), Mr. Wallop Ploythabthim (ÇÑÅÅÀ ¾ÅÃ

[Jockey]

There was an article in the Bangkok post I think Monday or maybe yesterday about Thai Children being abducted and forced to beg in the streets of Bangkok or be used for child prostitution. It suggested the use of Cambodian kids is getting harder, so the bstr'ds are stealing kids closer to home.

Why anyone thinks this is not true because its not on national tv or the media is living in a bubble. Obviously, if it were a Ferang child on holiday it would make world news, the police would put huge resources into finding the child etc. but sadly a poor Asian child doesn't merit much news. sad sad sad.

[DawnHRD]

There was an article in the Bangkok post I think Monday or maybe yesterday about Thai Children being abducted and forced to beg in the streets of Bangkok or be used for child prostitution. It suggested the use of Cambodian kids is getting harder, so the bstr'ds are stealing kids closer to home.

Why anyone thinks this is not true because its not on national tv or the media is living in a bubble. Obviously, if it were a Ferang child on holiday it would make world news, the police would put huge resources into finding the child etc. but sadly a poor Asian child doesn't merit much news. sad sad sad.

It's what we've been saying all along, isn't it? Very sad.

[PeteC]

From Today's Bangkok Post. Pete
_________________________________

Group warns abduction of kids rampant
Gangs in vans preying on 3-14 year olds

SAI-ARUN PINADUANG & ANJIRA ASSAVANONDA


The abduction of children by gangs operating in vans is now rampant in Phayao province, according to the network against trafficking of women and children in the northern province. Serm Promsarn, a member of the child protection network and the Ban Lao Tambon Administration Organisation in Mae Jai district, said the abduction gang was hard to catch because they constantly changed their vehicles. The abductors also know the geography and their way around the villages, he said.

Their targets were children aged between three and 14. Victims older than 10 were usually girls, he said.

After being kidnapped, the children would then be sold to fishing trawler operators to work as child labourers, he said. The trafficking gang were also known to cut off children's limbs and force them to beg on the streets, he claimed.

Mr Serm said abductions often occurred in crowded areas where children easily get lost from their parents.

Napapan Wongpan, another member of the anti-trafficking network, said the abductors from outside of Phayao came to villages in Mae Jai district during the Songkran festival and evaded suspicion by mingling with revellers returning home for the holidays.

Recently, a five-year-old girl was grabbed by the gang while riding a bicycle near a market in tambon Ban Lao, she said. However, the girl was lucky as she was rescued by passers-by.

Despite having a vehicle checkpoint manned by volunteers in tambon Ban Lao, it was not always easy to keep an eye out for strangers, she said.

Charoensri Chaikhat, Phayao social development officer, said the province was very concerned about the trafficking rings and authorities had been ordered to devise methods to deter them.

Deputy Social Development and Human Security Minister Poldej Pinprateep said the ministry is keeping a close watch on the problem of missing children.

He said he had heard a few reports about the abduction gangs operating in vans, but more information was needed to verify the scale of the problem.

As far as he had heard from the Mirror Art Group's centre working on missing persons, there were 400-500 children aged under 15 that had gone missing over the past five years. Among them, only 19 cases were abductions, he said.

The rest, he said, had disappeared because of other causes, such as escaping from broken families, or being lured by people they knew on the internet.

However, the report of the abduction gangs in vans was a reminder that the problem was real, even though it was on a small scale.

The ministry will inform its provincial offices nationwide to beware of the issue, he said.

Dr Poldej said the problem of child abduction was one of his concerns and that he would visit three families in Samut Sakhon province today whose children had been kidnapped to gather information in order to find effective measures to tackle the problem.

[Winkie]

The sooner report on child missing, the better

Prompted by a recent case, the Social Development and Human Security Ministry called on Saturday for an exception to the law requiring parents to wait 24 hours before reporting a missing child to police.

Deputy Minister Poldet Pinprateep said if parents immediately alerted authorities when they found that their children had disappeared, there was a greater chance of success in searching for them and bringing them back safely.

He said he was discussing this matter with police and they agreed to allow this early reporting of missing persons in the case of children. - The Nation.

[DawnHRD]

Not Cha-am, but seeing as this thread already existed - another reported news story about child abduction in Thailand.

I think this proves there is a problem & we should all be vigilant with our kids...


CHILDREN'S DAY NOT EVERYONE CELEBRATES
Numbers of missing children on the rise
ANJIRA ASSAVANONDA


A few people stopped to look at an A4-sized piece of paper showing the photos of four children, three boys and one girl, on a pole in the Siam Centre yesterday. After reading it and looking at the pictures, they learned it was a notice about missing children. The paper was put up by the Mirror Foundation as part of a campaign to alert the public to the problem of missing children as the nation celebrates Children's Day today. Copies were placed in other public places, such as the Dusit Zoo.

Ekaluck Lumchomkhae, who heads the Missing Persons Information Centre under the Mirror Foundation, said the posters are a tool to warn the public that the problem exists, and it can happen to anyone's child.

''You may not realise how serious the problem is, until it happens to your own children,'' he said.

The families of the four missing children are traumatised over the loss of their offspring.

Montha Sirithai, the mother of Nong Ploy, said it is going to be the second year that her girl, who will be six this year, will not celebrate Children's Day with her family.

''I miss her so much. We used to be together almost all the time,'' she said.

Nong Ploy disappeared in the evening of April 3, 2006, while playing around the Navanakorn open market in Pathum Thani where her mother was selling food.

''I felt something was wrong when she didn't come back to me at 7pm. I went searching for her and looked everywhere she might have been, but there was no trace.''

Two years have now gone by with no answers from relevant authorities.

''Now I have no idea what to do, where to go for help. I spent a huge sum of money searching for her. I went to Pattaya, Nakhon Sawan and some other provinces when I got some clues. Still I couldn't find my girl,'' said the mother.

The parents of Nong Larp, 10, and Nong Ten, 12, were desperate. The two boys, who were neighbours in Krathum Baen district of Samut Sakhon, went missing on Dec 16, 2006, after going to an internet cafe near their homes.

Soraya Dankuekul, the mother of Nong Ten, said her husband had suffered emotional trauma after losing his son.

''He had stress-induced stomach pain. Often I saw him weep. He could not hide the tears when someone asked about our son,'' she said.

The latest case of a missing child that came to the foundation was Nong Man, 5, who disappeared on Aug 8, 2007. The last person to see him said he was playing around the temple near his home in Chachoengsao province.

''At first, we thought he might have drowned because there is a canal near our home,'' said his mother, Suriya Thiemtan.

But searches of the neighbourhood and canal found no trace of him, so the family began to think of the possibility that the boy had been kidnapped.

The four families were all disappointed in the way police handled their cases, saying officers refused to take up their complaints unless the children had disappeared for at least 24 hours.

''Police normally don't take the problem seriously. When a child goes missing, they first assume the child just escaped from home, and will return days or weeks later,'' said Mr Ekaluck.

''We have a centre for missing vehicles in many border provinces, but there has never been such a centre for missing children,'' he added.

The foundation has recorded 518 cases of missing children, most of them girls, who went missing from home between 2004-2007. About 70% were able to return to their families


Bangkok Post

[Jaime]

Very sad - as a parent it is painful to read these stories. When you read the police responses you are reminded that law enforcement & justice in Thailand are a joke.

[dtyolmn]

This is really very sad. I would think that this subject would be number 1 for the Police. It really gets to my heart when I see children abused and forced to work or put into slavery. What if that child was a policemans.