Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

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StevePIraq
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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:48 pm

Strange then that the UK government has accepted that Crypto currencies are here to stay and they have even issued a policy statement on Crypto currencies.

The world did not use credit cards until someone developed them.
Extract from UK Policy Statement follows:
Bitcoin is seen as the world’s first decentralised digital currency, otherwise known as a ‘cryptocurrency’. The advent of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin is a new and evolving area and determining their legal and regulatory status is ongoing. Cryptocurrencies have a unique identity and cannot therefore be directly compared to any other form of investment activity or payment mechanism.
HMRC understands that Bitcoin operates via a peer to peer network, independent of any central authority or bank. All functions such as issue, transaction processing and verification are managed collectively by this network. All Bitcoin transactions are recorded in a shared public database called a ‘block-chain’. New Bitcoin is produced when a new block is attached to the chain. A new block can only be added to the chain when the answer to a complex cryptographic algorithm is solved. Participants in this activity are known as ‘miners’.
As well as mining, activities include the buying and selling of Bitcoin and providing exchange facilities for parties to trade Bitcoin with recognised currencies. Bitcoin may be held as an investment or used to pay for goods or services at merchants where it is accepted. In the UK, there are already a number of outlets, including pubs, restaurants and internet retailers, that accept payment by Bitcoin.
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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:03 pm

AJBangkok wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:04 am
I don't see crypto currencies being sustainable. First of all they are competing with governments to create money. In order for a government to survive/exist they must have the ability to issue fiat currency and control money supply. Crypto currencies are tiny now a bit like a single cell organism on an elephant in terms of global money supply so governments aren't really bohered they'll break the rice bowl.
There is more to crypto than just currency. Ethereum for example is an actual technology based on the blockchain, there are hundreds of other projects and technologies emerging that are based on a similar system. Decentralisation is the key word here, people want to get away from government and banks controlling everything. A nation blocking crypto currency or blockchain technology is akin to them blocking the internet in general (which many including this one still do), once there has been enough adoption and it finds its way into tech we use on a daily basis it will be unstoppable.
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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:07 pm

Crypto currency with Bit coin has been around since 2009 so it is hardly a flash in the pan. As Buksida says people are sick of the way governments and banks get enriched at the publics expense.
I have recently met someone who is investing in Ethereum amongst others and is getting far better returns than any other investment, he has already recovered his initial investment value so now it is all just profit, if the profit stops so what.
Maybe Vital Spark can give us more insight as she is already dealing in it.
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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Vital Spark » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm

I'm not sure whether AJBangkok is a financial advisor, or just bemused (as I used to be) at the whole concept of cryptocurrencies. Banks and financial advisors despise cryptocurrencies because now people can be in complete control of their money, and avoid the substantial profits that the 'established' instututions made at the expense of their clients. I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky). Meanwhile, young traders are guzzling £200 bottles of champagne at my expense. Yes it's a gamble, but so is investing in the stock exchange.

I love Ethereum :D . I bought into it mid-July when it was trading at around 6,800 baht. Today's price is around 13,000. I can take it out now, if I so desire (for a very small fee). I'm free to do what I want, when I want. And I'm happy with that. Sadly, I don't have a crystal ball, so have no idea what the future holds. At the moment it's on the up and up, but whatever happens it's not going to go to zero overnight. I'll still have made more than leaving it in the hands of a third party.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Vital Spark » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:23 am

This article is quite a sensible read:

The word 'cryptocurrency' is a synonym for 'gambling' in the minds of many traditional stock market investors. It's definitely true that assets like Bitcoin and Ethereum are of a very speculative and volatile nature.

However, the steadily increasing market capitalization of cryptocurrency shows that the general trend is upwards. At the moment, the total market cap of all crypto assets combined sits at around $170 bln. That’s a twelve-fold increase from last year.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/what-cry ... -in-common

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by dundrillin » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:02 pm

Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I'm not sure whether AJBangkok is a financial advisor, or just bemused (as I used to be) at the whole concept of cryptocurrencies. Banks and financial advisors despise cryptocurrencies because now people can be in complete control of their money, and avoid the substantial profits that the 'established' instututions made at the expense of their clients. I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky). Meanwhile, young traders are guzzling £200 bottles of champagne at my expense. Yes it's a gamble, but so is investing in the stock exchange.

I love Ethereum :D . I bought into it mid-July when it was trading at around 6,800 baht. Today's price is around 13,000. I can take it out now, if I so desire (for a very small fee). I'm free to do what I want, when I want. And I'm happy with that. Sadly, I don't have a crystal ball, so have no idea what the future holds. At the moment it's on the up and up, but whatever happens it's not going to go to zero overnight. I'll still have made more than leaving it in the hands of a third
Would not be a bad idea to sell half now.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Vital Spark » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:49 pm

Tempting, but I don't actually need the money right now. Cryptocurrency went a bit wild last night, and it's now settling down. It'll creep up again. One very sensible article I read said: "Don't panic buy, or sell". If I thought that ETH had no future, then I'd be cashing it in right now, but I'll just ride the ups and downs for now.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Pagey » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:41 am

Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky).
VS
I would happily pay someone to make me 7% a year on my cash........................................
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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Dannie Boy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:49 pm

Pagey wrote:
Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky).
VS
I would happily pay someone to make me 7% a year on my cash........................................
Yes I've lost 7% in some years when the going was bad!!



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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by dundrillin » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm

Pagey wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:41 am
Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky).
VS
I would happily pay someone to make me 7% a year on my cash........................................
7% is the long term return on stocks, money will double in 10 years,approx.
Going by the numerous adverts on the internet encouraging people to borrow cash to invest in cryptocurrencies I wonder if we are heading for another dot com type crash.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:23 pm

dundrillin wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm
Pagey wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:41 am
Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky).
VS
I would happily pay someone to make me 7% a year on my cash........................................
7% is the long term return on stocks, money will double in 10 years,approx.
Going by the numerous adverts on the internet encouraging people to borrow cash to invest in cryptocurrencies I wonder if we are heading for another dot com type crash.
Yes, basically these speculative bubbles mean that the last one in pays for everyone else's gains so if you do that with borrowed money, it's going to sting a bit. One thing that I'm curious about is the speed restrictions that these currencies seem to have on transaction volume and how that would handle a rapidly dropping price.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:40 pm

dundrillin wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm
Pagey wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:41 am
Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky).
VS
I would happily pay someone to make me 7% a year on my cash........................................
7% is the long term return on stocks, money will double in 10 years,approx.
Going by the numerous adverts on the internet encouraging people to borrow cash to invest in cryptocurrencies I wonder if we are heading for another dot com type crash.
They also say house prices double in value every 10 years, gold and silver are hedges. That may have been the case 20 years ago but not these days, it was pure marketing hype.
The Dot Com bubble grew from 1997 to 2001, then crashed 2000 to 2002 so it had a very short life and was purely a stock market gamble. Crypto has already been going since 2009 so it is far more established and gives ongoing returns however it does seem to be volatile.
Then again do you want to invest with one of the big banks who give 1% return but charge you 20%PA. Or invest in another Lehmann Brothers, Icelandic Bank or Wells Fargo, they are real quick ways to loose it all.
You could put 10k on many crypto and get over 100% return in 24 hours but then again you could lose it all. The top return in the last 24 hours is 1,556%, that's 155k in a day if you don't mind risk. Of course you can also play the crap table.
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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Vital Spark » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:47 pm

dundrillin wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm
Going by the numerous adverts on the internet encouraging people to borrow cash to invest in cryptocurrencies I wonder if we are heading for another dot com type crash.
I haven't seen those adds, but to borrow money (at whatever interest rate they charge) to speculate on cryptos is lunacy. In the last few days the prices have been going up and down quicker than a lady of the night's knickers.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Roel » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:36 am

Has anyone on here experience with the platform that Buksida mentioned earlier?
This one https://bx.in.th/
Are you using this Vital Spark?
We are all living in 'the good old days' of the future.

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Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by AJBangkok » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:03 pm

Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm
I'm not sure whether AJBangkok is a financial advisor, or just bemused (as I used to be) at the whole concept of cryptocurrencies. Banks and financial advisors despise cryptocurrencies because now people can be in complete control of their money, and avoid the substantial profits that the 'established' instututions made at the expense of their clients. I, like many others may be, am fed up with paying so-called experts fees to take care of my money and expect me to be happy at making a meagre 7% a year (if I'm really lucky). Meanwhile, young traders are guzzling £200 bottles of champagne at my expense. Yes it's a gamble, but so is investing in the stock exchange.

I love Ethereum :D . I bought into it mid-July when it was trading at around 6,800 baht. Today's price is around 13,000. I can take it out now, if I so desire (for a very small fee). I'm free to do what I want, when I want. And I'm happy with that. Sadly, I don't have a crystal ball, so have no idea what the future holds. At the moment it's on the up and up, but whatever happens it's not going to go to zero overnight. I'll still have made more than leaving it in the hands of a third party.

VS
I'm not a financial advisor but I have worked in the financial industry for over 30 years and yes I am more bemused by this minibubble and the ability of people to rationalize it as investment rather than gambling/speculation which is what it is .

The market cap of the entire cryptocurrency universe is a little over $300 Billion, to put that in perspective Google's market cap is a little over $600 billion. Google is a single stock. This entire bubble is tiny compared to global money supply and the penetration of cryptocurrencies into mainstream public markets on global scale is at a the level of a rounding error.

Markets have proven time and time again that it's possible to get overheated and stay overheated for much longer than anyone expected. I guess the same could hold true for crypto currencies but they can only continue to exist with the acquiescence of governments. If a government decides they are a threat to the general public, or eating into their tax revenues or financing terrorism or criminal activity, they will ban them. By doing so the effect on global capital markets would be the same as wiping out half of google's market cap. It won't even move the needle as far as global capital markets are concerned.

Here's the paradox. Just like a pyramid scheme in order to keep the price of cryptocurrencies moving higher you need to draw more and more "investors" in. The more of the general public you draw in the more likely the cryptocurrencies are to start appearing on the governments radar screens tripping red flags like consumer protection, and financial product regulatory issues. Their will be a tipping point when governments decide this kind of commerce/capitalism cannot exist without them being able to control it. That's the pin prick that will burst the bubble.

We are not at the tipping point yet and it may take a hell of a lot longer than anyone expects to get there but we will get there eventually so by all means make hay when the sun is shining but be prepared to cash in your crypto chips fast before you're left holding worthless credits in your e-wallet.

For those of you that say governments won't ban them they will just regulate them, you are possibly correct, but do you think that subjecting cryptocurrencies to the same massive tax, anti money laundering, terrorism financing, and securities regulatory oversight ( and costs associated to pay for all that ) is going to make them continue to appreciate in value . If you do then your faith in governments not screwing up a good thing is far greater than mine .

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