Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Technology, computers, internet, websites, mobiles, cameras, audio and video.
SPONSORS: Hua Hin Web Design
Post Reply
User avatar
StevePIraq
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: Ting Tong Land

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:08 pm

An interesting perspective of cryptocurrencies. I especially liked the following statement which is total rubbish.
"If a government decides they are a threat to the general public, or eating into their tax revenues or financing terrorism or criminal activity, they will ban them"

Why then have governments never banned trade in gold, silver and all other precious metals? these can be traded on line with no tax of any sort payable to anyone, trade in these can easily be used to finance terrorism, crime and money laundering. It can't be banned just as Crypto currencies can't be banned. A government only has authority over it's own country, not the internet. The web sites that manage trade in cryptocurrencies can easily be set up in non conforming countries just as torrent sites are.

The UK is already taxing trade in Bitcoin and I would assume all other coins.
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

User avatar
buksida
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 15820
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:25 pm
Location: south of sanity
Contact:

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:19 pm

If governments are going to ban them, how can moves like this be explained:
https://finance.nine.com.au/2017/09/04/ ... ial-9NewsS
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Get out there: On The Road Asia

AJBangkok
Amateur
Amateur
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by AJBangkok » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:17 am

Guy I'd I'd hedge my bets in the last paragraph below

For those of you that say governments won't ban them they will just regulate them, you are possibly correct, but do you think that subjecting cryptocurrencies to the samue massive tax, anti money laundering, terrorism financing, and securities regulatory oversight ( and costs associated to pay for all that ) is going to make them continue to appreciate in value . If you do then your faith in governments not screwing up a good thing is far greater than mine .

In any event you may have spotted china last night banning ICO's and requiring repayment of subscriptions. Or you may have spotted the line item hidden in the US foreign Sanctions Bill (H.R. 3364-51 ) opening the door for surveilance and monitoring of digital currencies to counter illicit financial transactions and combat terrorism. Then there was Australia last week passing a law requiring digital currency exchanges to be supervised by their financial watchdog.

As far as governments never banning trade gold and silver goes, in 1934 Franklin D Roosevelt nationalized gold and banned personal ownership of gold. This stood until 1945 I think. Most governments do tax capital gains on gold. In the US it's 20% .

Frankly I'm not saying that the party is going to end now but eventually it will end in its current lazire fre form and what's left isn't going to attract the same valuation metrics it does today.

The two major valuations metrics for a digital currency are scarcity and utility, call it supply and demand and the efficiency how it can be used. Right now investor frenzy Is driving the show but at some stage the utility factor has to kick in and when it does many of these digital currency's will disappear as they are non competitive.

As far as blockchain being the killer app goes, sure absolutely but blockchain can and does exist without a digital currency attached.

Digital currencies are not to going away, in fact government central banks are already talking about issuing their own, just last month the Chairmain of the German Bundesbank outlined a solution to combat privately issued digital currencies by central banks issuing their own.

Once again I'm not saying this is going to end any time soon but you shouldn't ignore what's going on around you as governments are already chipping away at the Utility aspect of cryptocurrencies and without both scarcity and utility current valuations are unsustainable.

Just for fun what do you think Donald Trump would do if it was proven North Korea financed their Nuke Program by bitcoin ?

AJBangkok
Amateur
Amateur
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by AJBangkok » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:19 am

Sorry I meant " guys I'd hedged my bets

User avatar
StevePIraq
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: Ting Tong Land

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:17 am

China is now banning crypto, however this only applies to operations within China, they cannot control what goes on outside of their authority. Chinese people can and will still buy online via overseas registered sites.

As for taxing trade in gold etc. that only applies if you trade within say the UK or USA, if you trade offshore there is no capital gains tax, I have been doing this for years.
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

User avatar
STEVE G
Hero
Hero
Posts: 11817
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:50 am
Location: HUA HIN/EUROPE

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by STEVE G » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:52 am

China is now banning crypto, however this only applies to operations within China, they cannot control what goes on outside of their authority. Chinese people can and will still buy online via overseas registered sites.
Wasn't the Chinese demand for bitcoin driven primarily by them using it to move money out of the country?

User avatar
buksida
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 15820
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:25 pm
Location: south of sanity
Contact:

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:24 pm

What we saw yesterday was a simple market correction, China bans pretty much anything it cant control, including the internet. It hasn't banned crypto currencies though, just ICOs (initial coin offerings) which is when new coins are floated on the market. This is a good move as many of them are scams and the flood of them in recent months needs some regulation. There is no ban on Bitcoin or other currencies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41157249

Bitcoin and Ethereum are still up a huge percentage from the beginning of the year. Cryptos are here to stay.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Get out there: On The Road Asia

AJBangkok
Amateur
Amateur
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by AJBangkok » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:21 pm

Yes China hasn't banned cryptocurrencies they have just banned ICO's and instructed that any funds received by ICO's be refunded. I read that the amount in question is roughly 2.2 billion dollars which is less than 1% of the total cryptocurrency market cap. It's not a big deal in financial terms but the 8-10% drop in some of the larger cryptocurrencies off the back of that announcement just shows how skittish the market is at these levels and the lack of depth in the market being able to absorb negative news.

The question I have is that in order to subscribe to one of one of these ICO's the majority of the issuers require payment in another cryptocurrency. So you have to sell one cryptocurrency to buy another. That isn't sustainable, it seems that business model would promote consolidation of a few cryptocurrencies at the expense of extinction of others.

In the past I've gained a lot of knowledge and enjoyment of reading Buksida's posts on property related issues so please don't take this below negativity.

Buksida's post above kind of hits at the heart of the matter when he says quote " this is a good move as many of them are scams and the flood of them in recent months needs some regulation" end quote.

I take it Buksida is a proponent of cryptocurrencies but that comment takes you into areas which actually threaten cryptocurrencies or at least erode thier value as much of the intrinsic value based on scarcity and utility are generated by cryptocurrencies being completely lazaire fe without any government regulation. Cryptocurrencies are private currencies, not issued by governments, not backed by governments and not regulated or subjected to oversight by governments. That's their appeal and that's what creates a huge chunk their value.

Buksidas comment is related to consumer protection, so How much government regulation is " is a good move " and who decides what to regulate? Can you regulate one cryptocurrency and not others. Can you trust governments not to succumb to mission creep with their regulation ( who will stop them) and are they likely to use a scalpel or a sledgehammer when they decide what, how and who to regulate. Going back to the Chinese banning ICO's the score seems to be: Sledgehammer 1 : Scalpel 0 .

Government intervention isn't a good thing for cryptocurrencies, it's an end to to party, if they survive then inviting government oversight will turn cryptocurrencies into just another boring investment vehicle, and boring doesn't generate 2000% returns over days or weeks .

With all the focus on cryptocurrencies recently they are hugely volatile, and volatility is a traders best friend. I'm sure you can probably make good money trading these things but in my experience nobody is smart enough to pick the top of the market or the bottom of the market, it's just dumb luck if they do. My advice is worth nothing I know but you'll never go broke taking a profit, so if you've got good profits in these things take some money off the table and focus on trading the volatility with the balance rather than "investing"in them.

User avatar
buksida
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 15820
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:25 pm
Location: south of sanity
Contact:

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:58 pm

There are some good points there, a few I agree with.

The bottom line is cryptos are volatile, even with the recent Chinese inspired market correction Bitcoin is still $1100 up on this time last month and $3700 up on this time last year.

You make your choices and take your risks, a little money invested in cryptos can easily be doubled, or you could leave it in a bank and make a guaranteed nothing.

The same mantra applies with any medium-high risk investments (including real estate in Thailand) - never spend more than you can afford to lose.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Get out there: On The Road Asia

User avatar
buksida
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 15820
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:25 pm
Location: south of sanity
Contact:

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:39 pm

JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon Decries Bitcoin To Banker Buddies
Jamie Dimon, JP Morgan’s CEO and one of the most prominent bank chiefs on the planet, believes bitcoin is doomed. At a gathering of investors hosted by Barclays in New York, Dimon referred to bitcoin as a “fraud” and told a group of professional investors what would happen to JP Morgan traders taking bitcoin action: “I’d fire them in a second. For two reasons: it’s against our rules, and they’re stupid. And both are dangerous.”

This statement is in stark contrast to a tsunami of interest by traditional financial institutions, such as Goldman Sachs, in the cryptospace this year. Even cybersecurity professionals like John McAfee, who is not a financial expert but knows a thing or two about computers and technology, are becoming true believers. Moreover, the blockchain that powers bitcoin is predictable and has been running since 2009. Known issues with the cryptocurrency were addressed in the SegWit fork which created two versions of the coin. This isn’t the sign of a dying currency. This is a sign that this ecosystem is self-regulating, solves its own problems, and is growing.

Reportedly, Dimon further told the conference of investors that bitcoin “won’t end well,” that it’s “worse than tulip bulbs,” and that “someone’s going to get killed.” This is rather strong language coming from a man whose company was integral in forming a cryptocurrency business consortium. So what do Dimon’s comments mean? Is he saying that it’s easier conduct illicit activity with cryptocurrency than cash? Is this just a case of a banker appeasing his buddies during a high powered lunch, or was Dimon actually trying to caution investors against cryptocurrencies?

Jamie Dimon doesn’t make money off of bitcoin. The majority of investors Dimon was addressing likely don’t either. They make their money off of fiat, so Dimon’s remarks could just be posturing in front of his contemporaries. Phrases like, “If you were in Venezuela or Ecuador or North Korea or a bunch of parts like that, or if you were a drug dealer, a murderer, stuff like that, you are better off doing it in bitcoin than U.S. dollars,” expose his naiveté. Places like Venezuela use cryptocurrencies not because they are criminals, but because their fiat currencies have failed them alongside their governments. So in turn, those people adopt crypto because it is stable and reliable. If sanctions are placed on your country, again, cryptocurrencies are a viable alternative and don’t care if you are good or evil. People care about politics and the differences between us. Crypto’s don’t.

Bloomberg reports that Dimon further differentiated between bitcoin and blockchain technology, saying that blockchain could be useful. This is comforting to hear from Dimon, considering his company has actually developed its own blockchain. In fact, JP Morgan’s blockchain lead had her own amusing reaction to the inflammatory statements:

Upon greater reflection, Dimon may realize that blockchain technology could not exist without cryptocurrencies like bitcoin or Ether. Cryptocurrencies like bitcoin are actually some of the best performing currencies ever. So why does Dimon despise them?

Simple. Dimon told the gathering of investors “someone’s going to get killed and then the government’s going to come down. You just saw in China, governments like to control their money supply.”

Maybe what Jamie Dimon is hoping for is that the government will come down on cryptocurrencies and save him – just like they did in 2008 when his company took $12billion in US taxpayer bailout money.

If bitcoin fails, how much will we have to pay?

https://www.ethnews.com/jp-morgan-ceo-j ... er-buddies
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Get out there: On The Road Asia

User avatar
StevePIraq
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: Ting Tong Land

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:32 pm

Poor JP Morgan can't accept that there may be another way than theirs.
Stock price: JPM (NYSE) US$91.15 +0.26 (+0.29%)
13 Sep, 4:00 PM GMT-4 - Disclaimer
CEO: James Dimon
Revenue: 95.66 billion USD (2016)
image.jpg
image.jpg (26.64 KiB) Viewed 397 times
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

User avatar
StevePIraq
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: Ting Tong Land

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:15 pm

An alterative view compared to JP Morgans view.
Standard Chartered.
Blockchain started as the foundation of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, but the technology’s potential applications could revolutionise how banking and commerce are conducted in the digital era. Here are six ways blockchain technology will transform everyday commerce.
http://www.bbc.com/storyworks/banking-o ... innovation
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

User avatar
Arlo
Professional
Professional
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:22 pm

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Arlo » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:38 am

http://bitnewsbot.com/jpmorgan-buys-the ... s-bitcoin/

JPMorgan Buys the Dip After CEO Trashes Bitcoin

Days after JPMorgan Chase & Co. CEO Jamie Dimon labeled Bitcoin a “fraud” and threatened to fire any employees caught trading cryptocurrency, it has emerged JPMorgan Securities made a number of trades on the Swedish stock exchange. Someone at the company bought and sold an instrument called Bitcoin XBT that tracks the bitcoin price.

User avatar
StevePIraq
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: Ting Tong Land

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by StevePIraq » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Any alternative to the present system is a good alternative.
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

User avatar
buksida
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 15820
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:25 pm
Location: south of sanity
Contact:

Re: Bitcoin mining and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:52 am

It is not surprising that the market is volatile with wankers like this manipulating it:

JP Morgan Trades Bitcoin ETN for Clients After CEO Calls It a 'Fraud'
JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon made headlines last week for his harsh words on cryptocurrencies, and he saved special vitriol for bitcoin in particular. Of the largest digital currency in the world, the banking boss said the entire enterprise was a "fraud" and suggested he would fire any employee who was caught trading a digital currency because that employee would be "stupid" for doing so.

Now, Bitcoin.com reveals that JP Morgan has been routing customer orders for XBT shares, exchange-traded notes that track the price of bitcoin. In an interview with Reuters, JP Morgan spokesman Brian Marchiony said, “They are not JPMorgan orders... These are clients purchasing third-party products directly.”

http://www.investopedia.com/news/jp-mor ... -it-fraud/

And this is likely to cause a few spikes in the chart:

Bitcoin is likely to split again in November
Bitcoin is looking increasingly likely to splinter off again in November, creating a third version of the world’s largest cryptocurrency as miners and developers pursue separate visions to scale its rapidly growing marketplace.

Major industry players, including the bitcoin investor Roger Ver -- known as “Bitcoin Jesus” for proselytizing on behalf of the digital currency -- say consensus between opposing camps looked increasingly unlikely. That opinion was echoed by some of the biggest mining pool operators and also programmers -- known as “Core” developers -- who were instrumental to developing the infrastructure of the original bitcoin network.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/wor ... n-november
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Get out there: On The Road Asia

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests